Examining a Flow Hive

[farmerboy5470]

No need what so ever.... rather than try and belittle a member why not take the time and enthrall us with your vast knowledge on foot and mouth.

I'm not belittling anyone. Its a beekeeping forum...
If you're going to compare bee diseases to other non species related diseases maybe want to know something about them, their effects and the control of them first.

 

[Tremyfro]

The point...Farmerboy....which you missed...is that diseases are dealt with differently in other countries....as demonstration. There is no need to apologise for interrupting the Flow of information and experiences about them...although as you pointed out it wasn't just about bees. Of course, anyone can comment...

 

[farmerboy5470]

If you're going to compare bee diseases to other non species related diseases maybe want to know something about them, their effects and the control of them first.

This would indicate I never missed the point...

 

[farmerboy5470]

I look forward to hearing how you get on with the flow hive

 

[farmerboy5470]

...

 

[BeeJayBee]

I am beginning to wonder whether its more the lack of research and acceptance by beekeepers which perpetuates the burn policy. Does it in fact actually control the spread of the disease? In truth I suspect not.
Look what has been happening in Italy with the outbreak of SHB....hundreds of hives burnt...and has it stopped the outbreak?

SHB and AFB are entirely different.

SHB is a new pest to Europe and is currently contained within a large valley in Italy. SHB won't kill a colony but makes honey storage problematic. Beetles fly from one location to another, AFB and EFB are moved around by bees and people.

AFB spores will last at least 50-80 years minimum and can be reactived when bees chew infected old comb. It's fair to compare it to anthrax spores - which are known to last at least 80 years.

AFB spores can be destroyed by burning (care has to be taken to make sure the pit is deep enough to ensure the waste won't be dug up by mistake and to make sure any molten and unburned wax doesn't flow into nearby topsoil), by submerging woodenware in paraffin wax for 10 minutes or, I think, heating dry at 160C for 2 hours minimum. Poly and plastic hives can be sterilised by immersing in the right concentration of hypochlorate for, I think, 20 minutes. Irradiation will also kill the spores, but it isn't cheap.

I also read that in an apiary where foul brood was discovered...that there were low infections in the bees in all the colonies but that the level was not sufficient to cause an outbreak of the disease. So it may be that with good strong colonies...they are less likely to succoumb....

I have read and been to lectures about foul brood...and seen some frames with it in them at our BKA.
With foul brood....can bees control it within the hive or is it something which will eventually kill the colony?

A colony infected with AFB will succumb to the disease, and it will be spread to other nearby colonies and can destroy livelihoods if not controlled.

Some countries allow the use of antibiotics, but in Britain we aren't partial to having antibiotics in our food.

Why not check out the FERA booklet again, I'm sure you've already read it at least once.
Foulbrood Disease of Honey Bees
http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=7

1. One company in the UK has made the investment but maybe has not seen beekeepers as a possible market.

I think it'd be too expensive for most beekeepers. With AFB the bees and frames are gone, possibly hives too. The most expensive thing to replace is the bees, surely better to put them into pristine, new, equipment?

 

[bontbee]

Is this not the same issue that existed with poly hives? A few years back, (it may be more than I think, the days go so quickly now...!) not many people who bought poly hives knew that, in the event of AFB, their poly hives would have to be irradiated (very expensive), or burnt at an incinerator, (very expensive), and neither would be covered by insurance. It was only in the last ? years that the NBU determined that sterilising with bleach would be effective.

PS I hope that NBU are carrying out tests to determine how flow frames may be sterilised! I would rather flows could be cleaned and retained - rather than being hidden away, smeared with spores. Not that any beekeeper would risk reinfection by doing that. Nah, course not.

 

[Into the lions den]

Is this not the same issue that existed with poly hives? A few years back, (it may be more than I think, the days go so quickly now...!) not many people who bought poly hives knew that, in the event of AFB, their poly hives would have to be irradiated (very expensive), or burnt at an incinerator, (very expensive), and neither would be covered by insurance. It was only in the last ? years that the NBU determined that sterilising with bleach would be effective.

PS I hope that NBU are carrying out tests to determine how flow frames may be sterilised! I would rather flows could be cleaned and retained - rather than being hidden away, smeared with spores. Not that any beekeeper would risk reinfection by doing that. Nah, course not.

That was, as usual, the UK lagging way behind. Makes folk annoyed to say it but in truth we are a relatively backward country in beekeeping. Getting better though.

I have been using poly since 1997, others since way way before that, and it was well known in Europe how to deal with this so it was not a concern.

During the 2009 foulbrood outbreak in Scotland, and the subsequent minor finding of AFB too, we were NEVER told by officials that poly had to be irradiated or incinerated. A thorough cleaning off and scrubbing with caustic soda sufficed. Since then less hazardous treatments have become recommended.

 

[bontbee]

Thanks for the correction, ITLD. I was hoping you, or any other big poly user would be able to comment. I was repeating the information given by an RBI, at that time.

 

[Tremyfro]

Thank you ITLD....this is just what I expected from the beekeepers here on the forum. Great information and a thoughtful answer.
Yes I am familiar with the directives on the control of an outbreak of EHB and AHB.
I thought I heard that burning...even in a pit wasn't entirely 100% safe in regard to eradication of the AFB....that the heat could carry spores up into the air. Do you have information on that.
What I don't understand is how the disease is controlled if the hives are dismantled...in the open air. Don't the spores spread.
As you say, the British can often be slow in adapting more modern methods of disease control.
I am in contact with beekeepers in Australia and they have to live with SHB. They use a variety of methods to control the beetle but they do lose colonies if it gets out of control...so neglected hives don't last long.
The more we are educated and informed about diseases the better armed we will be to combat them. It is only when people like yourself take the time to share information that it becomes owned by us all .....as reading the short chapters in beekeeping books has much less impact than real life encounters.

 

[Into the lions den]

Thanks for the correction, ITLD. I was hoping you, or any other big poly user would be able to comment. I was repeating the information given by an RBI, at that time.

Have heard some real purlers of misinformation from RBI's and even more so from SBI's.

If in doubt contact Andy Wattam direct and he will have it dealt with, if not by himself then by others. The NBU is an important national resource, and nowadays exists in far less of a bubble than it once did.

If you are given bad information then question it to higher up the tree. I have found them to be far more of a partner with us nowadays than most imagine. Andy is a good man and gives the impression of being very much on the beekeepers side.

They are also flexible and pragmatic compared to the old days, and will give due consideration to information from other countries about things like foulbrood control measures, in particular the need for destruction of kit. (Getting rid of AFB susceptible bees is another matter and is the normal in most countries and wise in the long term.)

 

[bontbee]

Once again, thanks, ITLD.

Perhaps I should clarify: it wasn't something the RBI was pushing out as a reason not to buy poly, (it was a private discussion of hypotheticals, not a presentation), but that was essentially the "official line" at the time. Knowing the person, that RBI is exactly the sort of supportive, positive, pragmatic member of the inspectorate you describe - fortunately, the need to discover options other than destruction didn't arise before the guidance changed to bleaching. I hope it turns out that flow hive frames will be sterilizable(?) by the same treatment.

It is a shame that some beekeepers, and it does seems to be the long term beeks, still resent the "Ministry" attending. But now that you remind me of some of the SBIs of the old days, suddenly it isn't so strange., unfortunately... It will be a long process, if it's ever possible, for them change their perspective and to see the bee unit as a valuable resource.

 

[Tremyfro]

ITLD.....the bit about asking if given bad information. This is something you don't often know until it is too late. Being able to recognise it is difficult for us new beekeepers. That is why having a trustworthy source of information is so important. Sometimes books are way out of date too. Thank you for the extra information.