Examining a Flow Hive

[BeeJayBee]

There's a company in Australia called Steritech, with 3 licensed irradiation sites and they do work on beehives incidental to medical, agricultural, quarantine, pharmaceuticals, etc. applications. ...

Now I'm not saying we should send our kit to Australia to be irradiated but how come Oz, with a population of 25 million has 3 facilities and the UK with a population of 60 million has one. ...

Maybe in Australia there is a company willing to make the investment to run these three sites whereas, so far, in UK no company has been willing to stump up that much capital?

Is there greater need, in Australia, for irradiation facilities, or is it because it's a large country and people are less able to get from a to b with whatever needs to be treated.

Is there a greater prevalence of AFB in Australia than in UK?

Is it, realistically, cheaper to irradiate than burn and replace standard kit, or is it the flow frames that need special treatment because they're so expensive?

 

[Into the lions den]

Foulbroods are largely irrelevant to how many irradiation sites there are.

They are only a very minor item in the list of things they are able to do. Cost would be several million to set one up.

Only one site here, but maybe that's just lack of market. Its not very popular in Europe to be eating irradiated things.

There are lots of instructions online for preparing your gear for irradiation, and if you are going to feed pollen to your bees from any source other than one you are not 100% certain has no AFB you should always get irradiated.

The stuff goes through the plant in whole pallet loads, and its not cheap.

Set one up to accommodate the 1% that will get AFB of the few flow hives there will be in the UK? Will never happen.

 

[Tremyfro]

Some thoughts on disease control.
It seems to me that the burning of hives as a control of disease is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the problem. Look at foot and mouth in cloven hooves animals in the UK. Kill and burn. That has been happening for donkeys years.....has it stopped outbreaks? No...it hasn't. It has devastated breeding lines and farmers. we don't hear of it happening elsewhere...and why is that?
I am beginning to wonder whether its more the lack of research and acceptance by beekeepers which perpetuates the burn policy. Does it in fact actually control the spread of the disease? In truth I suspect not.
Look what has been happening in Italy with the outbreak of SHB....hundreds of hives burnt...and has it stopped the outbreak?

 

[For want of a better word]

Looking at the epidemiology of Foot and Mouth disease and the spread of Swine Vesicular Disease in the last 70 years, the outbreaks have been spread by careless transportation of animals from one region to another.

Bio security is now higher in farmers husbandry, and possibly should also be with beekeepers?

Stock movement is controlled by legislation, and many think that honey bees (now classed as "Food producing stock) should also be brought under the same level of control.
Attended a talk by The Young Farmers last year and the speaker thought that all poultry ( Chickens, ducks geese, turkeys, guinea foul, even quail.... etc etc, should be registered, even for the 2 hen keeper... the fear was that hobbyist could be the vector of the spread of the Bird Flu virus, that can kill babies!
I did not dare mention the spread of honeybee disease by careless beekeepers!

WAY OFF TOPIC... the point is that we ALL need to be vigalent and scrapping used and obsolete kit should be done with some great care.

Mytten da

 

[For want of a better word]

Some thoughts on disease control.
It seems to me that the burning of hives as a control of disease is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the problem. Look at foot and mouth in cloven hooves animals in the UK. Kill and burn. That has been happening for donkeys years.....has it stopped outbreaks? No...it hasn't. It has devastated breeding lines and farmers. we don't hear of it happening elsewhere...and why is that?
I am beginning to wonder whether its more the lack of research and acceptance by beekeepers which perpetuates the burn policy. Does it in fact actually control the spread of the disease? In truth I suspect not.
Look what has been happening in Italy with the outbreak of SHB....hundreds of hives burnt...and has it stopped the outbreak?

References?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It seems to me that the burning of hives as a control of disease is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the problem.

Who said anything about burning hives?
Combs and frames get burnt, how else would you get rid of the spores and pathogens smeared all over them.
As for kill and burn with F&M I think the track record of two serious outbreaks since the sixties is a pretty good one.

 

[Tremyfro]

I was wondering whether there are other ways to deal with disease.
I remember reading somewhere that there is an inoculation for F&M.....which is used in other countries. Also animals which contract F&M can recover from it and then have immunity. They don't kill and burn in other countries...do they?
I also read that in an apiary where foul brood was discovered...that there were low infections in the bees in all the colonies but that the level was not sufficient to cause an outbreak of the disease. So it may be that with good strong colonies...they are less likely to succoumb. So how is that dealt with...do all colonies get destroyed? Even if there is no visual evidence or are they all tested in the lab to find out if the disease is present but not active?
Perhaps bees carry the foul brood bugs all the time but don't succoumb until stressed or weak?
I'm just interested and I am not concerned about the Flow frames...I may not get to use them if the summer is poor again...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They don't kill and burn in other countries...do they?

No, but in a lot of other countries it's also a lot more prevalent - france just ignore it and pretend they don't have it (quite a few outbreaks over there the same time as ours but they just kept quiet about it - allegedly )

 

[Tremyfro]

We were caught up in the last outbreak....couldn't move the horses.
It was heartbreaking seeing all the animals killed and the smell of burning was awful. That is why it strikes fear ...the disease is really not that bad....a bit like flu.
There were farmers who didn't report possible cases....just hid the animals.
Anyway......
I have read and been to lectures about foul brood...and seen some frames with it in them at our BKA.
With foul brood....can bees control it within the hive or is it something which will eventually kill the colony?

 

[madasafish]

We were caught up in the last outbreak....couldn't move the horses.
It was heartbreaking seeing all the animals killed and the smell of burning was awful. That is why it strikes fear ...the disease is really not that bad....a bit like flu.
There were farmers who didn't report possible cases....just hid the animals.
Anyway......
I have read and been to lectures about foul brood...and seen some frames with it in them at our BKA.
With foul brood....can bees control it within the hive or is it something which will eventually kill the colony?

AFB kills a colony as brood goes into slime and will not emerge.

 

[For want of a better word]

We were caught up in the last outbreak....couldn't move the horses.
It was heartbreaking seeing all the animals killed and the smell of burning was awful. That is why it strikes fear ...the disease is really not that bad....a bit like flu.
There were farmers who didn't report possible cases....just hid the animals.
Anyway......
I have read and been to lectures about foul brood...and seen some frames with it in them at our BKA ###.
With foul brood....can bees control it within the hive or is it something which will eventually kill the colony?

***
I would not advocate that... ever been inside an HM Prison?

### Foul brood is a disease that HAS to be reported! Tis the LAW ( In England)

We found a suspect case of EFB some years back... the SBI was called in and she had test cards for foul brood.
All 17 colonies in the small apiary were tested, none showed up foul brood... seems it was Sack Brood ( Chinese Slipper). The Imported hybrid Danish queen was culled and thankfully the disease has not returned.

This prompted attendance at one of the first of the BBKA/BDI disease recognition event..... where beekeepers could see ( and smell) all of the nasties ( and potential nasties that have not been imported yet)


Highly recommended course if you can get on one!

Yeghes da

 

[farmerboy5470]

I was wondering whether there are other ways to deal with disease.
I remember reading somewhere that there is an inoculation for F&M.....which is used in other countries. Also animals which contract F&M can recover from it and then have immunity. They don't kill and burn in other countries...do they?
I also read that in an apiary where foul brood was discovered...that there were low infections in the bees in all the colonies but that the level was not sufficient to cause an outbreak of the disease. So it may be that with good strong colonies...they are less likely to succoumb. So how is that dealt with...do all colonies get destroyed? Even if there is no visual evidence or are they all tested in the lab to find out if the disease is present but not active?
Perhaps bees carry the foul brood bugs all the time but don't succoumb until stressed or weak?
I'm just interested and I am not concerned about the Flow frames...I may not get to use them if the summer is poor again...

We were caught up in the last outbreak....couldn't move the horses.
It was heartbreaking seeing all the animals killed and the smell of burning was awful. That is why it strikes fear ...the disease is really not that bad....a bit like flu.
There were farmers who didn't report possible cases....just hid the animals.
Anyway......
I have read and been to lectures about foul brood...and seen some frames with it in them at our BKA.
With foul brood....can bees control it within the hive or is it something which will eventually kill the colony?

I would suggest sticking to the topic cause you clearly know nothing about F&M.

 

[Tremyfro]

I would suggest sticking to the topic cause you clearly know nothing about F&M.

What an unnecessary comment.....and you are clearly wrong.

 

[farmerboy5470]

What an unnecessary comment.....and you are clearly wrong.

Evidence?

 

[Tremyfro]

***
I would not advocate that... ever been inside an HM Prison?

### Foul brood is a disease that HAS to be reported! Tis the LAW ( In England)

We found a suspect case of EFB some years back... the SBI was called in and she had test cards for foul brood.
All 17 colonies in the small apiary were tested, none showed up foul brood... seems it was Sack Brood ( Chinese Slipper). The Imported hybrid Danish queen was culled and thankfully the disease has not returned.

This prompted attendance at one of the first of the BBKA/BDI disease recognition event..... where beekeepers could see ( and smell) all of the nasties ( and potential nasties that have not been imported yet)


Highly recommended course if you can get on one!

Yeghes da

Yes I agree...seeing the disease is so much more informative than looking at photos or videos.
I do know that these diseases need to be reported...I'm not suggesting otherwise....I am lucky that my bees have been inspected twice since I started beekeeping...but some people say they have never had their bees inspected.
I have learnt a lot each time too.
I am just interested in how disease is managed....

 

[Tremyfro]

Evidence?

How bossy you are.
If you need to know more about a subject...the Internet is there for all to use.
I could spent my time finding lots of facts for you but I'm not going to have a FB arguement with you.

 

[farmerboy5470]

How bossy you are.
If you need to know more about a subject...the Internet is there for all to use.
I could spent my time finding lots of facts for you but I'm not going to have a FB arguement with you.

Maybe take your own advise and use it then. I certainly don't need to regarding FMD. A FB argument? What's that?This is and is finished as far as I'm concerned.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Maybe take your own advise and use it then. I certainly don't need to regarding FMD. A FB argument? What's that?This is and is finished as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I, for one, am very relieved about that!

CVB

 

[Millet]

I would suggest sticking to the topic cause you clearly know nothing about F&M.

No need what so ever.... rather than try and belittle a member why not take the time and enthrall us with your vast knowledge on foot and mouth.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

1. Maybe in Australia there is a company willing to make the investment to run these three sites whereas, so far, in UK no company has been willing to stump up that much capital?

2. Is there greater need, in Australia, for irradiation facilities, or is it because it's a large country and people are less able to get from a to b with whatever needs to be treated.

3.Is there a greater prevalence of AFB in Australia than in UK?

4. Is it, realistically, cheaper to irradiate than burn and replace standard kit, or is it the flow frames that need special treatment because they're so expensive?

1. One company in the UK has made the investment but maybe has not seen beekeepers as a possible market. If you ever watch those Australian Border Control programmes on the tv, you may recall that when there is a possible source of contamination at the customs desk, they offer irradiation of the offending article at a cost as an alternative to confiscation. When my daughter was living in Sydney, she took a holiday in Vietnam and bought (and wore for 2 weeks) a straw "coolie hat" that she wore when she returned to Sydney. The customs bloke asked about it, removed it and tapped it on the desk, whereupon several creatures fell out of the straw! She was offered confiscation or irradiation at some exorbitant cost (>$100). She gave it up! The point is that irradiation seems to be used more routinely in Oz and the irradiators have expanded their market to include beekeepers and straw hats.
2. The 3 irradiation centres are scattered around Oz, one in Victoria, one in New South Wales and one Queensland. Because the irradiators in Oz have found or developed markets that do not exist in the UK, they can justify the considerable set-up costs
3. Don't know about AFB in Australia and haven't the time to find out.
4. Beekeeping and honey production is a big, big business in Australia. If an apiary with 100 hives has AFB, it may be worth spending $1000 on irradiation rather than burn the lot. Flow frames have only existed in Australia 6 months longer than in the UK so I don't think they are part of the equation.

CVB