Examining a Flow Hive

[Tremyfro]

We have built our Flow Hive. It's beautifully made from cedar. The boxes are much lighter to lift than the pine spare. It went together without problems and following the detailed instruction which were included. We used some sandpaper to smooth the edges of the wood of the removable parts and to make it easier for the future. The Flow Frames fitted perfectly in the box.
Looking at the frame...the cell walls are offset. In one row the wall is deeper than the next one...alternately. Working the mechanism for opening and closing the rows of cells, I could see that having them set up this way would tear the capping in a sort of shearing force...so you could be sure that all of them would be open. When the cells are set in the closed position...the gap between the rows is tiny..like half a mm or less. The whole hive is set at an angle sloping towards the back...to aid draining the honey. The channel at the bottom of the frame ends in a small gap. When the cap is fitted the gap is still there, to allow the bees to lick up any remaining honey drips. When the tube for extraction is fitted...this gap is closed by a lip on the edge of the tube. The tube has the Flow logo printed on it so you know which way to fit it.
The floor has an OMF...with a varroa board which has 2 positions ..a higher and a lower position. The roof is pitched and there is room for insulation above a cover board with a hole for feeding.
The hive is well made and has the logo of the Flow burnt into the wood etc..a nice touch.
Now all that remains to be done is to oil the wood with natural Danish oil.
It is a thing of beauty....I can't think why I would leave it out in the rain!

 

[enrico]

Thanks for that......I wondered what the quality would be like! Good description.
E

 

[Vramin]

Following your progress with great interest. Keep posting.

 

[For want of a better word]

Where do you fit the Autumn feeder... or do you just fill up the funny plastick frames and let the bees rob them out?

Just wondered

Yeghes da

 

[Erichalfbee]

Where do you fit the Autumn feeder..

Just wondered

Yeghes da

Well I should imagine the flow frames have to come off in winter. You would have to lick the frames out yourself

 

[Tremyfro]

Icanhopit.....you have to look after your bees as usual...this is only a harvesting tool. Feeding can be done using an eke and a rapid feeder or a Miller feeder for a langstroth hive or a frame feeder in the brood box or fondant could be put above the crown board in a plastic takeaway container as usual....but I am sure you already know this. The hive without the Flow Frames is just like a normal langstroth hive.
Clearly the Flow frames are removed for the winter after the last extraction..I would certainly have them off before the ivy flow....just as you would with supers. If I wait a couple of days after the last extraction...hopefully, the bees will have cleaned them....the same as putting the supers back on after extraction for the bees to clean them. Probably rinsing with hot water would remove any remnants of honey. Any wax could be left as the bees would use it the next time...just like normal comb.
I was wondering about any honey in the Flow Frames which didn't get capped or was at the stage where it could be extracted by the end of the summer.....but then I realised that I could drain it off and feed back to the bees for their own use in the winter.

 

[Beanwood]

Well done for buying one to try, and thanks for sharing. I'm sure I'm not alone that when I first saw this I thought it was April 1st....

I'll be interested to see the results when you get some honey in.

 

[For want of a better word]

Icanhopit.....you have to look after your bees as usual...this is only a harvesting tool. Feeding can be done using an eke and a rapid feeder or a Miller feeder for a langstroth hive or a frame feeder in the brood box or fondant could be put above the crown board in a plastic takeaway container as usual....but I am sure you already know this. The hive without the Flow Frames is just like a normal langstroth hive.
Clearly the Flow frames are removed for the winter after the last extraction..I would certainly have them off before the ivy flow....just as you would with supers. If I wait a couple of days after the last extraction...hopefully, the bees will have cleaned them....the same as putting the supers back on after extraction for the bees to clean them. Probably rinsing with hot water would remove any remnants of honey. Any wax could be left as the bees would use it the next time...just like normal comb.
I was wondering about any honey in the Flow Frames which didn't get capped or was at the stage where it could be extracted by the end of the summer.....but then I realised that I could drain it off and feed back to the bees for their own use in the winter.

Sounds like an incredible amount of work.. with a few more than a dozen colonies, I think I will stick with my 20 frame radial!

Yeghes da

 

[Tremyfro]

Sounds like an incredible amount of work.. with a few more than a dozen colonies, I think I will stick with my 20 frame radial!

Yeghes da

Not sure I know what you mean ....as clearly there would be less work than conventional extraction.
I shall see for myself...and let you know...in due course.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I'm so pleased that your Flow Hive went together so well.

Have you noticed the deafening silence from the people on this forum who said it was all a scam, that Cedar and Stu would take the money and run, that it would all be an expensive mistake?

I've seen an amateur video of a Flow Hive owner in Perth WA taking off her first Flow Frame honey harvest - yes, it a tiny bit messier than the process shown in the official video but it was effective and only one bee was interested in what was happening at the back of the hive while the harvest was happening!

I bet you cannot wait for the season to start to see how the frames cope with UK conditions.

Good luck

CVB

 

[Tremyfro]

I'm so pleased that your Flow Hive went together so well.

Have you noticed the deafening silence from the people on this forum who said it was all a scam, that Cedar and Stu would take the money and run, that it would all be an expensive mistake?

I've seen an amateur video of a Flow Hive owner in Perth WA taking off her first Flow Frame honey harvest - yes, it a tiny bit messier than the process shown in the official video but it was effective and only one bee was interested in what was happening at the back of the hive while the harvest was happening!

I bet you cannot wait for the season to start to see how the frames cope with UK conditions.

Good luck

CVB

Yes I have seen the video...and the second one too. I think they had put the extraction tube in upside down....so some honey escaped into the hive.
There was also something I didn't know...there are two positions for the varroa board. Apparently, when you do an extraction the board should be in the higher position so that any spilt honey can be licked up by the bees...as they can reach it through the varroa mesh...mind you I haven't checked this yet.
And yes...I have noticed that some of the people who were doubting the honesty of the Flow Hive Team are not so vocal. Still it is only to be expected that such an innovative idea would be laughed at to begin with. I have every hope that those same people will embrace the idea when we have more information and it had been used enough to prove itself.
I am hoping for a better summer this year so that I can try it out.

 

[Tom Bick]

Interesting descriptions and updates about the flow hive and will be interesting in time to read more.

You are however confirming my thoughts on how the frames are flowed and not as perfect as often mentioned in the promotional videos. The cappings are clearly damaged during the extraction of the honey and the resulting honey running down the face of the comb will drip down through the hive.

We now understand the 2nd position of the inspection board is designed to turn the hive into almost a solid floor to hopefully catching the honey and hold it long enough so the bees have a chance to clean it up. Obviously you will have to make sure this board is extremely clean or would it be best to have two boards for the hive.

It is making me think the bees apparent lack of interest at the rear of the hive and filling jars of honey could be down to the blind panic they may be experiencing inside the hive with the dripping honey. This dripping honey will inevitably drip onto bees trying to clean it away. If their is a reasonable amount of honey then it's inevitable some bees will get stuck in the honey. Basically it's not looking as this cosy no impact on the bees as described in the videos.

The honey dripping down from the frames will have to pass through the brood box and inevitably over the face of the combs. Would some of this honey find its way into open cells of brood and eggs? I suspect so and suspect the bees may decide to eject the larvae and eggs of contaminated cells? but then you may be in a better position in time to confirm one way or the other.

I suspect it's not the bees in the hive you have to worry about when extracting but the other colonies perhaps within a mile of the hive out foraging. Let's hope the board does its job and the drips are not so great so you don't get any honey exposed outside of the hive.

 

[Tremyfro]

I see what you mean Tom but I think the honey escaping is more likely to come from the end of the extraction tube than the face of the comb. The surface of the capping may be torn a bit...I don't know this for sure...but the wax completing the cell will be. The cells are at a distinct angle...more so than a normal comb. This I would think will direct the honey towards the back of the cell and down into the extraction channel. It will also depend on the viscosity of the honey. If it is very runny...then there may be greater overflow.
Mind you this is all supposition until I get to try them out.
There must be quite a few people beginning to harvest their honey crops in Australia...so we should see more video and photos and reports in due course. The end of February/ March is the main flow for some areas...so hopefully we will know more then. Of course, it must be remembered that everyone will be doing this for the first time so there are bound to be some mistakes and cock ups....not everyone can follow instructions.
I am as interested as the next person to see how this works.

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes time will tell if they work well or not so great. Personally I would like to see one in action as I am not so anti as I may come across its just that I see a few issues and potential problems.

I think you will get more honey than you think running down the combs as I suspect the pressure of honey from the top part of the cells could push honey out through the cells lower down. Liquids don't tend to form an orderly queue when gravity comes into action but time will tell.

Any chance of the link to the video.

 

[Tremyfro]

I wouldn't have a clue how to link a video...ha ha....would have to get a grandson involved...
However, if you join the Flow Hive Beekeeping Facebook page...I believe there may be one on there to see. The second extraction went a lot better apparently. It is a closed group and they are not interested in arguments only good discussion.
No...I got that wrong....there are just photos there.
Look on utube....put in Flow Hive First Harvest. There is a video of a flow hive in Perth WA.

 

[Tremyfro]

It would be interesting to see a flow frame being extracted outside the hive...in real life...as it were. I might try this if I get a crop this summer. So I could see the actual mechanism close up. It would certainly reveal any flaws and also how much Joey to expect to escape the draining of the frame.
There is a lot to discover about the Flow Frame...it will be exciting.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Y

Any chance of the link to the video.

It might be this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOxOsoij0fg

 

[bontbee]

Thanks for the link, ericA.

It certainly looked like a very easy extraction. It would obviously be more efficient to extract all frames at once (but I know that wasn't the point of the vid!) It looked as if the lower plug wasn't replaced, though....I guess that would be like leaving a honey gate open, you'd only do it once!

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks for the link Dani it does look like it all works a cording to plan on the video.also looks as though they operated the key at different positions and perhaps only separating a few rows of cells at a time?

Look at this Tremyfro

https://youtu.be/ryWC92NT2Eo

 

[Erichalfbee]

Then, there is this
http://forum.honeyflow.com/t/uh-oh-help-leaking-frames/4969