Bees have all gone - photos

[oliver90owner]

You will get actic acid crystals - but only in glacial acetic acid (close to 100% pure). It melts at about 16-17 degrees. It needs dilution to ~80% for this purpose.

Here in the UK 'glacial' is easily obtained from chemicals suppliers for around a £4 a litre plus shipping. The largest beekeeping supplier, Th8rne, will not post it and also charge an arm and a leg for it already diluted to 80%.

Soap making suppliers also sell it at a competitive price 'The soap kitchen' is about the cheapest at £60 + VAT and delivery) for 25 litres, I think.

ITLD is right about agrichem suppliers, but while I can think of common uses for formalin, formic acid and proprionic acid, I can't think of any regular 'agri' uses for acetic acid (now known as ethanoic acid).

RAB

 

[Into the lions den]

I can't think of any regular 'agri' uses for acetic acid (now known as ethanoic acid).
RAB

Neither can I off the top of my head. However they do have it in stock. I am not a farmer and maybe it has something to do with a specialist sector, like dairy tanks or something.

Also stocked in Dundee by a paint and lubricants supply company who also supply basic chemicals, and through whom I get small orders (under a pallet) of caustic. Yet another specialist company who distribute far and wide is Tan Inernational based out of Perth.........and they stock and deliver most of these things but the order sizes are larger. Some call it ethanoic...some still call it by the old name and have ethanoic in brackets.

 

[drstitson]

The hitchhiking varroa abandoning collapsing hives on robbers and/or through drifting is a good explanation for the problems of massive losses many italian beeks had this autumn.

Long summer giving varroa a chance to multiply for longer plus strong tendency of ligustica to rob plus high densities of closely aligned hives promoting drifting.

 

[RoofTops]

Acetic acid can be used as a weed killer - perhaps this is why farm suppliers stock it?

 

[Finman]

.
Virkon S is nowadays a chemical which is used to sterilize combs.
It works like hydrogen peroxide. it kills all kind of microbes like mold, bacteria and viruses.

 

[Into the lions den]

.
Virkon S is nowadays a chemical which is used to sterilize combs.
It works like hydrogen peroxide. it kills all kind of microbes like mold, bacteria and viruses.

Agreed, but these items operate by complete soaking so the liquid gets to every part. Very effective but very time consuming. The acids mode of operation and target purpose are different.

The acetic acid is administered by placing pads...soaked with a cup of 80% acetic acid.......in a stack of boxes of combs, sealed up to prevent ventilation, and left that way for a few days. Then open the stacks, remove the pads, and allow the boxes to air. The effect is from the fumes, not from direct exposure to the liquid acid. Mainly effective against the residues of nosema present on the combs, especially after the bees have defecated there. Really heavily soiled combs should be destroyed. It is not intended as a general microbial clean up.

To the poster who said it was also a herbicide..............sure is. If you put a box of fumigated combs back on a hive before the airing has been 100% completed the bees fan like mad and finish it for you.............and in the process the grass etc close to the entrance dies off, burnt by the acidic fumes.

 

[alexander]

.
Virkon S is nowadays a chemical which is used to sterilize combs.
It works like hydrogen peroxide. it kills all kind of microbes like mold, bacteria and viruses.

I work on a livestock farm and we use loads of this stuff. Pretty expensive, but is the best you can buy, aproved by all kinds of bodies. Out of intrest i emailed them, asking about bees, as I bought secondhand hives to start of. They replied, telling me that they thought that the product would likely kill everything, but as they had done no tests reguarding bees, they could not say if it would be safe to use. I used it, didnt see any problems.

 

[dpearce4]

ITLD is right about agrichem suppliers, but while I can think of common uses for formalin, formic acid and proprionic acid, I can't think of any regular 'agri' uses for acetic acid (now known as ethanoic acid).

RAB

this is used in some sorts of cheese making. helps seperate the curds from whey. makes good curd cheese.

 

[Finman]

I, they could not say if it would be safe to use. I used it, didnt see any problems.

there is a research in Stockholmn university Sweden that yoo may sterilize EFB spores from white combs which bees have not used for brood rearing.

First all old honey must be washed out and then the comb is sunked in red Virkon S.

It seems that Virkon has something soap that it stays better on surfaces.

Greenhouses use too Virkon to sterilize plant diseases on construction surfaces (not on plant). It is spraeyd on surfaces.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

FERA like Virkon S especially for poly hives...

 

[Arfermo]

WynneJones do ascetic acid http://cwyxxejones.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53_57_72&products_id=217. The link will work if you change the xx.

 

[oliver90owner]

WynneJones do ascetic acid

At £16.32 for a litre of 80%, before delivery costs, that is only for the wealthy ones amongst us, who want to spend their money quickly!!

 

[Arfermo]

WynneJones do ascetic acid

At £16.32 for a litre of 80%, before delivery costs, that is only for the wealthy ones amongst us, who want to spend their money quickly!!

I wouldn't use but it up to others to decide. All I did was to say where it was available if one is desperate. Is that a crime now and can we assume your futile rant is now over?

 

[Luminos]

Many thanks for all your views.

Looking back over the posts, nothing was mentioned about Acetic Acid crystals - just solution - no wonder it was expensive! I must have been getting mixed up (no pun...) with OA or Thymol crystals

And apart from the cost, I would prefer not to "deal" with corrosive stuff if it's not necessary.

I think I will take ITLD's advice, Point 1, and just re-use the combs and until then, keep them sealed in plastic bags.

MJB PM'd me when this all first happened, and has kindly offered to sell me a couple of colonies in spring; and advised that if I have some used frames it will reduce the cost, so obviously I'm quite keen not to destroy them

 

[RoofTops]

FWIW I have spoken with someone who had tested Virkon S against AFB spores and found it was not effective. He also said they had found a chemical which killed AFB spores and the NBU knew about it - but were keeping it secret. The worry is people will try self-treating AFB if they thought there was some substance which killed the spores. Which it might but the effectiveness of the treatment would be unknown and some spores might be missed.

 

[Finman]

FWIW I have spoken with someone who had tested Virkon S against AFB spores and found it was not effective. .

it does not work if it is brood comb or has pollen or it has AFB scales.

Here is Canadian recommendation

http://www.albertabeekeepers.org/assets/pdf/Recommendations for Management of Honey Bee.pdf

Decontaminate empty hive boxes, bottom boards and inner
cover:
Hive boxes from infected colonies, can be decontaminated by:
- Scorching
- Wash with high pressure water
- Virkon (Disinfectant sold at Vet Drug stores)
- Steam washing with Lye solution (one pound of lye in 10
gallons of water). After steam washing, wash with water.
Precaution: Read the label. Lye is caustic and can cause
severe burns.
- Use OxyTET-25-S (D.I.N.

 

[Chris Luck]

First swarm of the year. This one is for a member of this forum. Chris


Oooop's, wrong thread. should have been in "what have you been doing in the apiary"

 

[Stromnessbees]

Contradictions!

Here are some pictures

There is a serious contradiction in this thread, which makes me wonder what's going on here.


The title indicates that all the bees have gone, this is not typical for varroa.
The varroa is supposed to have arrived with robbing bees.
- But elswhere Luminos asks what to do with all the stores left behind.

This could be a typical case of CCD, colony collapse caused by neonics, with the bees gone and the stores left behind untouched.

But the thread was derailed to make it look like death through varroa.


The photos are not there anymore. Can they be linked in again, please?

 

[Alabamaeee]

I've just thought of another question (sorry...)

What do do with the queen?
She's in a plastic bag in the fridge at the moment, right at the back where I don't have to keep looking at her

Something about swarm attracter?

Take her to your apiary in the Spring. Find a post nearby or tree bough and squash her on it. Any swarm passing may just find it, and apparently the pheromone lasts for years and can attract several swarms.

You could alternatively squash her all over the inside of a bait hive.

She died unfortunately, but why not make the best possoble use of her remains.

 

[oliver90owner]

which makes me wonder what's going on here.

I wouldn't. Long time ago, the early posts were likely correct using the photos, as I recall - and now you are trying to make something different of it? I think give it a rest. Stop scaremongering with what you cannot see and stick to hard evidence.