Amm / Native Black Bee Discussion

Hello,
For those interested in Amm / Native Black Bees. Tell us about your bees, queen rearing groups, successes and failures.
Please feel free to post your experiences, observations, or questions regarding the above.

 

[Robinredcar]

Mine are comfortably filling a 14x12. I have two supers in each. They were queens I bought from Ceri in Autumn overwintered in 6 frame nucs

I've never tried the 14x12, I might look at converting my brood boxs and nucs to get away from brood and a half.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've never tried the 14x12, I might look at converting my brood boxs and nucs to get away from brood and a half.

Some people hate the large frames but I'm OK with them. Half are foundation free with fishing line to strengthen.

 

[Robinredcar]

Some people hate the large frames but I'm OK with them. Half are foundation free with fishing line to strengthen.

I was very keen on sticking to standard national stuff but it dosnt seem like I'll be able to the few I've spoken to local don't. I'm really keen on not using foundation I think bought in stuff may contain nasties, this is only my second season so I've tried to keep it basic as I've had problems with crap drawn foundation so didn't want to risk foundationless just yet lol.

 

[W0otz]

I've never tried the 14x12, I might look at converting my brood boxs and nucs to get away from brood and a half.

I like them, apart from 1 thing - if you get frames of honey then very few extractors, certainly on the cheaper end, will take them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I like them, apart from 1 thing - if you get frames of honey then very few extractors, certainly on the cheaper end, will take them.

Yes it’s why I have my Abelo. My old Giordan did.

 

[Robinredcar]

I like them, apart from 1 thing - if you get frames of honey then very few extractors, certainly on the cheaper end, will take them.

That's another reason I was wanting to stick to standard it is easier to extract from brood frames used as a super (not that I've had any honey from these sneaky buggers yet!)

 

[Erichalfbee]

I tried a double decker nuc. The bees like the configuration but I hate all the brood that gets ripped open when I split the boxes.

 

[Robinredcar]

I tried a double decker nuc. The bees like the configuration but I hate all the brood that gets ripped open when I split the boxes.

I'm the same, I over wintered one of mine on a brood and a half there was alot of brace comb when I done the first inspection I didn't really like it hence why I was looking to keep on a single brood. I think the 14x12 might be the better option over the commercial.

 

[pargyle]

I'm the same, I over wintered one of mine on a brood and a half there was alot of brace comb when I done the first inspection I didn't really like it hence why I was looking to keep on a single brood. I think the 14x12 might be the better option over the commercial.

I've always run 14 x 12 ...and have always been foundationless. I also don't use queen excluders and Ceri's two queens are currently wall to wall brood in my 14 x 12's and have also put brood in about half the super frames as well. They are very prolific - I'm effectively running 14 x 12 brood and a third on these two hives at present !

 

[Robinredcar]

I've always run 14 x 12 ...and have always been foundationless. I also don't use queen excluders and Ceri's two queens are currently wall to wall brood in my 14 x 12's and have also put brood in about half the super frames as well. They are very prolific - I'm effectively running 14 x 12 brood and a third on these two hives at present !

How do you find extracting, do you replace the super combs every year?
I'd be worried about them being so prolific if I'm honest, it's alot of mouths to feed if there's a dearth won't the bees eat a great chunk of the honey? How do they overwinter is it over on a 14x12?

 

[Erichalfbee]

How do you find extracting, do you replace the super combs every year?
I'd be worried about them being so prolific if I'm honest, it's alot of mouths to feed if there's a dearth won't the bees eat a great chunk of the honey? How do they overwinter is it over on a 14x12?

I have a couple of colonies sans QX. I don’t replace super frames that have been laid in and neither does Philip I’m sure.
When the brood nest contracts at the end of summer those frames are full of honey and are extracted with the rest
As far as eating a big chunk of their honey it is theirs after all.

 

[Robinredcar]

I have a couple of colonies sans QX. I don’t replace super frames that have been laid in and neither does Philip I’m sure.
When the brood nest contracts at the end of summer those frames are full of honey and are extracted with the rest
As far as eating a big chunk of their honey it is theirs after all.

I was under the impression super combs lasted pretty much forever but brood comb had to be replaced every few years, id have thought when supers where used for laying they'd need replacing to.
Oh don't get me wrong I left a full super on my colony over winter figured it's better for them than feeding sugar, but I thought one of the main reasons native bees do well hear is because they have adapted to our varying weather, so don't have great massive brood to feed and are frugal with stores.

 

[Beesnaturally]

I'm pretty sure that there was speculation that all the subspecies had time/height preferences a few years ago but can't remember the sources other than the previously mentioned book.

*If* that's the case, maybe your question could be answered simply by the Amm having a more remote preference to that of the others. Doubt there will be any indepth research on this any time soon but its an interesting possibility.

It will almost certainly depend on the fitness of the offspring. If, on the whole they do well, they'll tend to mingle at the borders. If they don't then those individually showing a preference for home-mating - whether by altitude of other mechanism will - tend to come to the fore.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was under the impression super combs lasted pretty much forever but brood comb had to be replaced every few years, id have thought when supers where used for laying they'd need replacing to.
Oh don't get me wrong I left a full super on my colony over winter figured it's better for them than feeding sugar, but I thought one of the main reasons native bees do well hear is because they have adapted to our varying weather, so don't have great massive brood to feed and are frugal with stores.

Well I’m pretty slapdash. I don’t put supers back on the colonies they come from unless by accident so the frames brooded in get mixed up with the others anyway.

 

[Robinredcar]

Well I’m pretty slapdash. I don’t put supers back on the colonies they come from unless by accident so the frames brooded in get mixed up with the others anyway.

Sorry I meant replacing them as corse as you do brood not so much the mixing them between colonies

 

[Swarm]

I don't find them overly prolific, just normal to be honest, brooded frames can vary quite a bit and with some queens, from year to year. The green queen pictured laid up a decent nest of around fourteen frames in her first season, last year she went no further than nine frames but they were on their sixth super when the flow ended. We've had others who ambled along in single broods for a couple of years before exploding in the third.
Yes, they certainly are adapted to our conditions, don't build massive brood nests and are very frugal with stores.

We had six colonies we were going to sell this Spring with queens raised last year, had a couple of time wasters but not much else. They are full colonies with supers now, I added a third to one of them today, she has nine frames of brood with quite a few new bees emerging.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry I meant replacing them as corse as you do brood not so much the mixing them between colonies

Brood frames get replaced when they fall apart

 

[Robinredcar]

I don't find them overly prolific, just normal to be honest, brooded frames can vary quite a bit and with some queens, from year to year. The green queen pictured laid up a decent nest of around fourteen frames in her first season, last year she went no further than nine frames but they were on their sixth super when the flow ended. We've had others who ambled along in single broods for a couple of years before exploding in the third.
Yes, they certainly are adapted to our conditions, don't build massive brood nests and are very frugal with stores.

We had six colonies we were going to sell this Spring with queens raised last year, had a couple of time wasters but not much else. They are full colonies with supers now, I added a third to one of them today, she has nine frames of brood with quite a few new bees emerging.

I'm lost with it, I thought the main problem with none amm bees was the very large brood and reluctance to slow down to suit our maritime climate (like aml being adapted to long summers and laying lots of brood to take advantage of their climate) so forinstance amm holding up in a cold spell and not producing lots of hungry brood with no income. I've heard amm will out crop anything else when measured over a decade as this accounts for poor summers bad springs ect. I thought for the reasons above everything but amm struggle to survive in the wild hear. Well done on 6 supers though!

 

[Robinredcar]

Brood frames get replaced when they fall apart

Oh sorry I thought every one replaced brood combs every few years as a preventative measure

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh sorry I thought every one replaced brood combs every few years as a preventative measure

Yes. Most do.