For those interested in AMM

B+. · Oct 5, 2017

Swarm said:
Sorry you get irritated B+ but just accept that Carnica were never native in the UK or Ireland.

I only said those that were born here were native, not the entire race. Please don't misquote me.

Uncle Betty · Oct 5, 2017

B+. said:
Exactly.
However, if you refer to post 63, it is clear that I was referring to the repeated use of the word "Native" as a subliminal message to tell people that they were not making the "correct" (in your opinion) choice. That is what bothers me (and others).

It's clear that you are hyperbolic, as I was saying.

QED.

Though I'm not so easily bothered as yourself, your Queen Vic/moving house etc etc illustrations are slightly bonkers in this debate.

Lastly, it is a bit much for you to huff and puff about being misquoted when this...

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=606217&postcount=39

B+. · Oct 5, 2017

Uncle Betty said:
Though I'm not so easily bothered as yourself, your Queen Vic/moving house etc etc illustrations are slightly bonkers in this debate.

Lastly, it is a bit much for you to huff and puff about being misquoted when this...

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=606217&postcount=39

what's your point

jenkinsbrynmair · Oct 5, 2017

Glad to see Godwin's law making its appearance - even in a thread on AMM

Uncle Betty · Oct 5, 2017

jenkinsbrynmair said:
Glad to see Godwin's law making its appearance - even in a thread on AMM

I couldn't resist !

Quis Custodiet · Oct 5, 2017

Uncle Betty said:
I couldn't resist !

.....and good old Jenkins could not resist displaying his erudition! :sifone:

We really do live in stirring times!

kevrhcfag · Oct 6, 2017

Swarm said:
Strange isn't it? Don't read too much into it though, most of these negative comments are just perpetuated hearsay, use the bees that suit your beekeeping. Amm are at the point where finally, some much deserved attention is being paid to them. Exciting times, lucky you in Ireland.

The positive news about Amm should be welcome (and it is by quite a few of us who believed it all along )

Only been keeping bees 4 or 5 years, but in that time there has always been a fair bit of attention on AMM. There was BIBBA, wing measurement thing etc., that has seemed to have morphed from AMM into local "black" etc. is best. Failure of AMM strategy? Whatever their pro or cons.

Swarm said:
Unfortunately, those who are obviously NOT interested in Amm always have something to say about them. Why is that?

People have things to say about everything to promote their own point or failing that disparage someone elses, its the way of the world.

Many things on here are repeated so often they have went from myth / possibilities to full grown facts that happen 100% of the time, The vast majority are just carp.

Finman · Oct 6, 2017

Swarm said:
Unfortunately, those who are obviously NOT interested in Amm always have something to say about them. Why is that?

Because they know what AMM is. I have almost 30 years experiences about that queen of the myths.
It is good to warn new beekeepers about that trial of domestication.

In my area feral Carniolans try to take Black bee's place, when mite killed black bees.

Swarm · Oct 6, 2017

kevrhcfag said:
Only been keeping bees 4 or 5 years, but in that time there has always been a fair bit of attention on AMM. There was BIBBA, wing measurement thing etc., that has seemed to have morphed from AMM into local "black" etc. is best. Failure of AMM strategy? Whatever their pro or cons.

People have things to say about everything to promote their own point or failing that disparage someone elses, its the way of the world.

Many things on here are repeated so often they have went from myth / possibilities to full grown facts that happen 100% of the time, The vast majority are just carp.

The fair bit of attention you talk about is quite miniscule compared to the attention Carnica, Buckfast etc has enjoyed for decades. For a start it's been a constant uphill struggle simply to get some to accept they do actually still exist.
B+ said it's like them and us, well all the abuse seems to be coming from one side. Find a single post of mine where I berate other types of bee, you won't because I like them all. But I still don't understand how a bunch of beekeepers can direct such abuse and ridicule, coupled with a throw away attitude towards one type of creature they claim to care about.

madasafish · Oct 6, 2017

Swarm said:
The fair bit of attention you talk about is quite miniscule compared to the attention Carnica, Buckfast etc has enjoyed for decades. For a start it's been a constant uphill struggle simply to get some to accept they do actually still exist.
B+ said it's like them and us, well all the abuse seems to be coming from one side. Find a single post of mine where I berate other types of bee, you won't because I like them all. But I still don't understand how a bunch of beekeepers can direct such abuse and ridicule, coupled with a throw away attitude towards one type of creature they claim to care about.

Well let's think.
"Ban all imports of bees and promote home grown mongrels" is the official position of the BBKA.
That's worthy of millions of words of ridicule - all deserved.

For want of a better word · Oct 6, 2017

Gilberdyke John said:
Is there a case for every thread involving a.m.m. to be consigned to the cupboard under the stairs?

This forum is about beekeeping and beekeepers, information exchange and advice. Most beekeepers are helpful, some self opinionated, Some educated, some clearly not!

A very new web site has been set up to run alongside the Natural beekeepers, The BBKA members, etc etc, which has its aim to have considered conversation about Native and near native bees.

WWW.DARKBEE.ORG.UK

Yeghes da

Swarm · Oct 6, 2017

madasafish said:
Well let's think.
"Ban all imports of bees and promote home grown mongrels" is the official position of the BBKA.
That's worthy of millions of words of ridicule - all deserved.

I can't see your point, I'm not talking about the BBKA or any organisation, I'm talking about the attitude of beekeepers towards Amm.

Into the lions den · Oct 6, 2017

Swarm said:
B+ said it's like them and us, well all the abuse seems to be coming from one side.

Have to completely disagree with that. It comes in broadly equal measure from both sides.

From those who know their subject and from those who don't.

From those who use emotive language and those who don't.

From those who make exaggerated claims and those who stick to facts.

ANY beekeeper (other than those whose raison d'etre is purely conservation) who wants to make progress cannot totally entrench themselves and ignore developments that may run contrary to their deeply held instincts.

B+. · Oct 6, 2017

madasafish said:
Well let's think.
"Ban all imports of bees and promote home grown mongrels" is the official position of the BBKA.
That's worthy of millions of words of ridicule - all deserved.

If anyone doubts what madasafish says, I suggest that you browse through this thread (https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39682). How can the BBKA claim to represent British beekeepers when many of us don't want mongrels?

SDM · Oct 6, 2017

I guess most of us have got used to associations not caring about what membership wants.

For want of a better word · Oct 6, 2017

SDM said:
I guess most of us have got used to associations not caring about what membership wants.

10% want one thing...10% want the opposite
The other 80% do not know what they want and follow blindly on!

Seems to be the average apathy other anything in this country... and many others.

Yeghes da

Quis Custodiet · Oct 6, 2017

Into the lions den said:
Have to completely disagree with that. It comes in broadly equal measure from both sides.

The main thrust of this thread at the moment, is the contents of a report relating to indigenous bees in Ireland, which is due to be published shortly.
I am privileged to be friends with many beekeepers throughout the island of Ireland; some keep AMM type bees, some imported bees and their hybrids, many differ from me in religion and they come from a wide social spectrum, one in fact is a Roman Catholic priest.
I have no reason whatsoever to believe that any of them would concur with your claim above and neither do I. So may I ask you to give your reasons why you believe the hive burnings, hives damaged by vehicles driving into them, hives riddled with shotgun pellets, de facto exclusion from some associations, intimidation of beekeepers living on their own....to name but some outrages "comes in broadly equal measure from both sides" here? If you were referring only to Scotland or England, then make that clear.

Uncle Betty · Oct 6, 2017

Quis Custodiet said:
Into the lions den said:

Have to completely disagree with that. It comes in broadly equal measure from both sides.

The main thrust of this thread at the moment, is the contents of a report relating to indigenous bees in Ireland, which is due to be published shortly.
I am privileged to be friends with many beekeepers throughout the island of Ireland; some keep AMM type bees, some imported bees and their hybrids, many differ from me in religion and they come from a wide social spectrum, one in fact is a Roman Catholic priest.
I have no reason whatsoever to believe that any of them would concur with your claim above and neither do I. So may I ask you to give your reasons why you believe the hive burnings, hives damaged by vehicles driving into them, hives riddled with shotgun pellets, de facto exclusion from some associations, intimidation of beekeepers living on their own....to name but some outrages "comes in broadly equal measure from both sides" here? If you were referring only to Scotland or England, then make that clear.

Click to expand...

Assuming your anecdotes are true...

isn't that how you lot settle ALL your differences ?

As for religious denomination... what does it have to do with anything here ? I don't see the point in that at all.

edit - lost connection...

We have an explicit Federation policy of promoting Amm. However, all beekeepers are welcome, and the type of intolerant violence you describe would be abhorred as the abnormal that it is.

Into the lions den · Oct 6, 2017

Quis Custodiet said:
Into the lions den said:

Have to completely disagree with that. It comes in broadly equal measure from both sides.

If you were referring only to Scotland or England, then make that clear.

Click to expand...

I thought my meaning to be perfectly clear. The subject, albeit a pretty big bit of thread drift, was abuse aimed at people on these threads.

To open it out into all these extra (and reprehensible) acts is the same type of thing as the hyperbole others are being accused of.

Your addressing someone who, even on this forum, had a suggestion made that their bees should be attacked. IIRC, as it was some years ago, 'go round and torch the lot' was the wording.

Finman · Oct 6, 2017

.
Every one has his own bees. He will carry his harms, if he nurse with dreams the bees. No one can help him. But their learning curve goes high. So high, that no one can see.

When guys pray attention with their dreams, it is not bad if others give it. IT is others' duty to do so. IT is a Christian habit.

I have tried now Buckfast bees 3 years, and I am very satisfied to them. I keep them together with Italians. Honey comes from pastures.
.

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