For those interested in AMM

[madasafish]

Beekeepers want gentle bees that don't sting the living daylights out of them, don't swarm excessively, are quite productive and are resistant to common pests and diseases. In a nutshell, that's it. They don't care about where a bees ancestors came from

I agree.
Probably 75% of UK beekeepers agree.
But the remainder appear to think that ethnicity is far more important than effectiveness..

 

[Uncle Betty]

Mankind didn't "make" the island. However, if it pleases you to think we did, so be it.

Well, this is an inauspicious beginning...

First you refer the UK, now you want to move those goalposts to 'the island' in order to be petty and insulting. Noted.

But it is apparently necessary to NOW point out to you that the (manmade) UK is not 'the island' alone. Oh dear.

It doesn't look good.

I'm at work so I'll read the rest of your post later. Thanks in advance for taking the time to do so at such length.

 

[Poly Hive]

I so agree B+ and it always makes me chuckle when our beloved cousins in the USA say with great sincerity, "I'm a Norwegian/German/Irish/Scottish etc etc etc American. Oddly though they never seem to lay claim to Mexican or Japan or if they do I've yet to meet one.

I think to myself no no no you're really not mate. You are an American matey.

Thinking about it I have never heard a Canadian say anything similar.

PH

 

[Uncle Betty]

I agree.
Probably 75% of UK beekeepers agree.
But the remainder appear to think that ethnicity is far more important than effectiveness..

Oh...

 

[Brian Bush]

Beekeepers want gentle bees that don't sting the living daylights out of them, don't swarm excessively, are quite productive and are resistant to common pests and diseases. In a nutshell, that's it. They don't care about where a bees ancestors came from

I agree with B+.We all neeed to get together to achieve this aim.By that I mean Beeks, local associations, BBKA, NBU, universities etc.
It is a wise man who learns from his own mistakes, and an even wiser one who learns from other peoples mistakes. The Germans embraced the idea of improving their stock. They probably have made mistakes but their current product is excellent. Why not use their expertise and strains as a starting point? I have no strong feelings about AMM but if it an excellent bee by the desired traits why is it so difficult to get good strains of?
I am going to latch on to the German work next year and hope to encourage others to follow suite.I see no complaints on this forum about farmers using French/Belgium/swiss bulls to produce better beef!

 

[Swarm]

Mankind didn't "make" the island. However, if it pleases you to think we did, so be it.
Let me pose a scenario for you. I was born and grew up in the North-East of England. My parents and grandparents did too (I believe the statement holds true for several generations prior to that, but, we'll leave it at 3 generations). I now live in Bedfordshire where my 3 sons were born and have lived here all of their life.
Am I not native to the North-east, but, resident in Bedfordshire. What of my sons? Are they not native to Bedfordshire?
Words like this are merely labels to hang an idea on. The idea of belonging to a place, or originating from it. My sons are native to Bedfordshire while I am not.
The point is that if you're born in a place, you're a native of that place. In the same way, one of my carniolans that was born here, was mated / inseminated here and makes her colony here is native to here. She's not a native of some other place (i.e. Germany / The Netherlands) where her mother, grandmother or great grandmother came from because she has never even been there. In that sense, my carnica queens are every bit as native to the UK as those Amm that were imported from some other place.
If you mean to imply that Amm is more adapted to the conditions here, I would ask you to show me an Amm colony that performs like this (https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3832). Is this not evidence of being suited to my local conditions? I think it is. My carnica performs better here than any of the local mongrels which, by your argument, should be better adapted.
These weasel words "native", "locally adapted", etc are really beginning to annoy me. They are loaded with an implied merit that the stock simply doesn't live up to. Beekeepers want gentle bees that don't sting the living daylights out of them, don't swarm excessively, are quite productive and are resistant to common pests and diseases. In a nutshell, that's it. They don't care about where a bees ancestors came from

That is hysterical. These places you lived, were there humans living there? We can't compare migration of species to you moving house, that's absurd. No your carnica will always be an introduced (sub) species.

 

[Swarm]

I agree with B+.We all neeed to get together to achieve this aim.By that I mean Beeks, local associations, BBKA, NBU, universities etc.
It is a wise man who learns from his own mistakes, and an even wiser one who learns from other peoples mistakes. The Germans embraced the idea of improving their stock. They probably have made mistakes but their current product is excellent. Why not use their expertise and strains as a starting point? I have no strong feelings about AMM but if it an excellent bee by the desired traits why is it so difficult to get good strains of?
I am going to latch on to the German work next year and hope to encourage others to follow suite.I see no complaints on this forum about farmers using French/Belgium/swiss bulls to produce better beef!

A regime that tried to exterminate its population of Amm?

 

[B+.]

We can't compare migration of species to you moving house, that's absurd. No your carnica will always be an introduced (sub) species.

It was merely an analogy to illustrate the point.
So, if a sub-species were to become the dominant bee in an area, they'd still be unacceptable?

 

[B+.]

A regime that tried to exterminate its population of Amm?

I think you're getting a little confused. We are still talking about bees aren't we? Germany has areas dedicated to the propagation of Amm, Amc, Buckfast, etc. There is no extermination, but, there are some superb breeders and excellent bees

 

[Eyeman]

I am going to latch on to the German work next year and hope to encourage others to follow suite.I see no complaints on this forum about farmers using French/Belgium/swiss bulls to produce better beef!

Recently heard at this years Apimondia that Germany wont be exporting it's queens from next year. This apparently is to encourage us mortals to improve our local stock.

 

[mbc]

These weasel words "native", "locally adapted", etc are really beginning to annoy me.

I have friends who raise carnies and carnie crosses and despite differences in the bees we choose to keep I like them and respect their efforts and have good bee chats with them and we occasionally cooperate in our beekeeping.
Your tone and attitude make it impossible to respect you in the slightest I'm afraid.

 

[B+.]

Your tone and attitude make it impossible to respect you in the slightest I'm afraid.

I can't tell you how much that upsets me. Oh wait, it doesn't.

 

[Poly Hive]

Hmm the date is Oct 4th.

Is the earliest silly off season yet? Seems so.

PH

 

[Swarm]

Date doesn't matter when it comes to a thread about Amm, they turn up and chuck a load of shite about until it fizzles out.

 

[deemann1]

I keep amm
Just a beginner .why do use guy's dislike them ??
And why all the bickering

 

[Beefriendly]

Don't think anyone dislikes them. Sometimes the exaggerated claims of their capabilities is annoying. Like any bee strain/hybrid they have advocates and detractors. Most have never kept them...sourcing UK pure(ish) Amm's is not easy.
The bickering just happens when ever beekeepers get together, damn lot of opinionated barstewards. Put them all in the pub and they'd get on fine...lot of keyboard warriors out there.

 

[For want of a better word]

Atlas describes the land to the west of the main island and all the other landmasses and islands thereabouts as being the British Isles... but how did a deep gulf in the continental shelf be called the Portuguese sea bight????

Nos da

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Again, we need a "like" button!

Rather than go over the same blinkered negativity that always appears in Amm threads, let's stop for a moment and realise that we are all supposed to be lovers/ custodians of the honey bee. That one sub species gets so much criticism I simply cannot understand.

Even our own queen is descended from a German import. None of us are really "native" (whatever that means) anymore.

And that German import was descended from a Welsh king with a smattering of Irish and Viking ancestors

I have friends who raise carnies and carnie crosses and despite differences in the bees we choose to keep I like them and respect their efforts and have good bee chats with them and we occasionally cooperate in our beekeeping.
Your tone and attitude make it impossible to respect you in the slightest I'm afraid.

<<LIKE>>

Date doesn't matter when it comes to a thread about Amm, they turn up and chuck a load of shite about until it fizzles out.

About sums it up

 

[Finman]

I can't tell you how much that upsets me. Oh wait, it doesn't.

You have alternative opinion, so called collective opinion.

 

[Swarm]

I keep amm
Just a beginner .why do use guy's dislike them ??
And why all the bickering

Strange isn't it? Don't read too much into it though, most of these negative comments are just perpetuated hearsay, use the bees that suit your beekeeping. Amm are at the point where finally, some much deserved attention is being paid to them. Exciting times, lucky you in Ireland.

The positive news about Amm should be welcome (and it is by quite a few of us who believed it all along )