Would you treat?

[sandysman]

Over the last few months when I have tested for varroa I have had a nil result. I have been using Hiveclean during inspections as a maintainable dose only and this appears to have worked well. (It is my second season of using it ). I have in the past used the traditional autumn varroa
treatments but feel this year that if I do I will be subjecting the bees to an unnecessary treatment. I know that the inspection board only gives an indication and is not 100% so what do you guys suggest?
Andy

 

[Martley]

Deffo

Well I am a newbie in my 1st year so no experience to call on, and like you my inspections had shown zero drop. However having read comments on here by others I decided to treat anyway - This morning (12 hours in) showed a drop of around 20. Watch this space...

 

[madasafish]

If you want to trial, try only on one hive.

Experiments best done on limited scale in case of disaster.

(I.,m the same regarding varroa)

 

[Stickyfingers]

Over the last few months when I have tested for varroa I have had a nil result. I have been using Hiveclean during inspections as a maintainable dose only and this appears to have worked well. (It is my second season of using it ). I have in the past used the traditional autumn varroa
treatments but feel this year that if I do I will be subjecting the bees to an unnecessary treatment. I know that the inspection board only gives an indication and is not 100% so what do you guys suggest?
Andy

This was covered in earlier thread and it raised quite stir.
Speaking for my hives I have strong colony looking perfectly healthy with a low drop. Treated and was shocked by what I saw. I will now be treating all of them. I think this year the have learnt how to hide and cling on far better.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I presume your testing has included drone uncapping and perhaps sugar rolling which might be better indicators of infestation that natural drop so I would go with

If you want to trial, try only on one hive.

Experiments best done on limited scale in case of disaster.

(I.,m the same regarding varroa)

I have done a little drone uncapping and found one or two. Too many for me and I'm treating all the hives with MAQS

 

[MuswellMetro]

I was going to post on the previous post on zero drop but it go too long and comments a bit OTT

all, my hives have low or zero drop and hives in one apairy had been treated last week end with Thymol oil mix on tissue from Admin and Hivemakers Sticky post

results after 7 days are total drops of between 50 and 120 mites, that is higher than i exepcted for natural drops of 1 or 2 mites a week

I have therefore treated all my hives

 

[pargyle]

I did a full inspection today of my hive which included uncapping drone cells (not that there were very many in the hive) that yielded no varroa. I also did a sugar roll and that yielded no mites either ... I haven't seen a single varroa on my sticky floor apart from a very small number when I first got the swarm in May and sugar dusted them prior to putting them in the hive.

I had a really close look at some of the bees after sugar rolling them when they were a little engrossed and I could not see any varroa hiding on the ones I looked at.

So, I'm inclined to leave them untreated ... they are a strong colony so we'll have to see how they get along.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Over the last few months when I have tested for varroa I have had a nil result. I have been using Hiveclean during inspections as a maintainable dose only and this appears to have worked well. (It is my second season of using it ). I have in the past used the traditional autumn varroa
treatments but feel this year that if I do I will be subjecting the bees to an unnecessary treatment. I know that the inspection board only gives an indication and is not 100% so what do you guys suggest?
Andy

I suggest you read and absorb page 185 disease section of Ted Hooper - guide to bees and honey. I believe his comments apply equally to varroa treatments as they do to diseases.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Me too but different decision ..

..... So, I'm inclined to leave them untreated ... they are a strong colony so we'll have to see how they get along.

My beekeeping this year has followed yours by about a week - my first bees from a swarm at beginning of June, icing sugar treatment immediately, Hiveclean treatment two weeks later and, since then, not more than an average of one a day natural drop.

I did not have the courage of my one-hive convictions and have just started HM's Thymol treatment. The next big decision will concern the mid-winter treatment if the drop from the Thymol treatment - 3 doses, two weeks apart - produces a low drop.

I'll let you know the Varroa count provided this thread does not descend into another slanging match between you-know who and what's-his name.

 

[pargyle]

My beekeeping this year has followed yours by about a week - my first bees from a swarm at beginning of June, icing sugar treatment immediately, Hiveclean treatment two weeks later and, since then, not more than an average of one a day natural drop.

I did not have the courage of my one-hive convictions and have just started HM's Thymol treatment. The next big decision will concern the mid-winter treatment if the drop from the Thymol treatment - 3 doses, two weeks apart - produces a low drop.

I'll let you know the Varroa count provided this thread does not descend into another slanging match between you-know who and what's-his name.

That would be good CVB ... let us know how the drop goes during treatment - if the thread follows the usual pattern then PM. I still can't quite believe that I have no varroa ... I posted some photos of my inspection today on the 'What did you do in the apiary' thread ... look really healthy bees.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

My beekeeping this year has followed yours by about a week - my first bees from a swarm at beginning of June, icing sugar treatment immediately, Hiveclean treatment two weeks later and, since then, not more than an average of one a day natural drop.

I did not have the courage of my one-hive convictions and have just started HM's Thymol treatment. The next big decision will concern the mid-winter treatment if the drop from the Thymol treatment - 3 doses, two weeks apart - produces a low drop.

My beekeeping is a mere 12 months or so ahead if yours, charlievictorbravo. I recall my own thoughts last year, as my bees came from an impeccable source, having had the best treatments available. So, should I rely on that - or treat?

I decided I didn't have the experience to go against the (general) advice to have a comprehensive IPM based on an autumn treatment and a midwinter treatment. So I treated with Apilife Var this time last year - and found a surprisingly large mite drop. I followed that with the midwinter treatment and my hive flourished.

I reckon I will make - and have made - enough errors of judgement without adding to that, a strategic decision at variance with core advice.

Dusty

 

[Tom Bick]

I would say dont treat any more than required and if you are confident you have such low numbers then its your call to treat or not.

I dont consider thymol to be a particularly harsh treatment and one you can stop during treatment if the drop is still very low.

If you dont treat and during next year you realise you have a high load then you have other treatments available but will only involve more of your time to deal with it.

I have also found little evidence of varroa but they are there and will treat with thymol and consider this autumn thymol treatment the most important one of the year. I do have one exception to the rule and thats my TBH as this will be its third year without treatment and its one of my strongest hives and going by the books should be dead or very weak, perhaps next year.

 

[Goran]

That would be good CVB ... let us know how the drop goes during treatment - if the thread follows the usual pattern then PM. I still can't quite believe that I have no varroa ... I posted some photos of my inspection today on the 'What did you do in the apiary' thread ... look really healthy bees.

Look may trick You, and devil ( varroa) never sleep. I heard last winter one apiary of around 100 hives wiped out cause of their look ( not taken seriously). Also here can appear later reinvasion as the case of robbing, silent robbing, warm weather periods in autumn for prolonging bees contact. Now I strike hard ( end july - august), some test later in September and wiping with oxalic, also nosema prevention in this wint. prep. period.

 

[Heather]

I am having difficulty in believing my eyes.. 13 hives and no varroa drop prior to any treatment.
I erred on side of caution and put an Apiguard on each one.. 6 days later.. 3 varroa seen. I wont be doing 2nd treatment but will start an early 2:1 syrup in small amounts each week, and for the first time adding Nozevit to each.

In answer to another question re syrup/fondant I syrup until bees are inactive then swap to fondant slab over each cover board hole.

 

[Goran]

I am having difficulty in believing my eyes.. 13 hives and no varroa drop prior to any treatment.
I erred on side of caution and put an Apiguard on each one.. 6 days later.. 3 varroa seen. I wont be doing 2nd treatment but will start an early 2:1 syrup in small amounts each week, and for the first time adding Nozevit to each.

In answer to another question re syrup/fondant I syrup until bees are inactive then swap to fondant slab over each cover board hole.

Sorry to be off topic, when is time when You have to stop/finish feeding with syrup/fondant. Here is considered till 1st September. At most urgently needed till 15 September due to protecting winter bees from exhausting. Some beekeepers disregard here this and had weaker colonies in spring..
I believe You have milder climate and no need for considering this?

 

[pargyle]

I am having difficulty in believing my eyes.. 13 hives and no varroa drop prior to any treatment.
I erred on side of caution and put an Apiguard on each one.. 6 days later.. 3 varroa seen. I wont be doing 2nd treatment but will start an early 2:1 syrup in small amounts each week, and for the first time adding Nozevit to each.

That's a brilliant result ... it bears out the fact that there are some colonies that are very nearly free of varroa this year. Not that a lot of people around these parts will accept that as a fact !

There is something behind these low varroa numbers ..... and I don't think it's just misguided optimism - or dillusional.

 

[REDWOOD]

Varroa drop is only 15% of the total population if that, 85% you will never see as they under brood caps

 

[pargyle]

Varroa drop is only 15% of the total population if that, 85% you will never see as they under brood caps

Yes ... but after 6 days of treatment and a drop of 3 varroa mites over 13 hives .... that's a result ! And that was treating hives that had not shown any mite drop.

I uncapped drone brood today ... and found none ... I sugar rolled today ... and found none ... there has been zero mite drop on my sticky board for 4 months ...

Now, I could wack some thymol in there ... and I could get a drop of thousands ... but there again, if I only got a drop of three then I've put my bees through the stress of treatment for no reason. Depends whether you are an optimist or pessimist I think.

Don't get me wrong ... if there is evidence of mites then TREAT ... no evidence of mites - well, I'm in the optimist camp !

 

[REDWOOD]

I agree that is a very low mite drop after treatment but for those who don't know what to do I would do it, stressed bees are better than no bees

 

[pargyle]

I agree that is a very low mite drop after treatment but for those who don't know what to do I would do it, stressed bees are better than no bees

Actually ...this is a point of view that I would agree with.

There are, clearly, a large number of beekeepers for whom the hassle of checking for varroa is something that they either cannot do from the point of view of time (or other) constraints or they don't understand how to do it.

For those people the 'treat regardless' option is very sensible ... as you rightly point out, stressed bees will recover, dead bees are dead !

I think that the other aspect that needs to be considered is whether lower levels of treatment can be successful where there are lower numbers of varroa present. The 'powerhouse' Thymol treatments commercially marketed are very strong ... and the effect they have on the bees is dramatic - yes, they will kill varroa, but would a less agressive level of thymol have sufficient stamina to eradicate low level varroa infestation ? There is much to learn still .... I can't see Varroa becoming resistant to thymol in the way they became tolerant of pyrethroids so there's a chance that reducing the dosage could be a way forward.

We tend to forget that it's not the varroa that kill the bees ... it's the vectoring of disease that does the damage. If the colony is healthy and the varroa count is low then large doses of treatments may adversely affect the bees natural ability to resist disease, rather than assist it.