Would you treat?

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 11 of Treatment

The treatment continues - Day 11 has produced a drop of 4 Varroa, bringing the total to 103 - not very many but now 103 less than 11 days ago.

Thanks for your information, Goran on the silent robbing. I've done some research on the net and it appears to be quite a well-known phenomenon. It certainly matches what I saw at my hive and I'll be checking whether there is a route to the under side of the OMF for these silent robbers to do their begging-for-food trick. I had hoped that my under-floor entrance would help the home team defend their stores but if they give it away or don't defend, what can you do?

CVB

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 12 of Treatment

Only 3 Varroa today - total's now 106 - but I'm nearing the end of first fortnight of treatment so maybe either the Thymol's losing its potency or all the exposed mites have been zapped. I'm away for three days so I won't have another drop count until Tuesday (Day 15) at which time I'll do a count, have a look in the hive to see how the stores are and put on the second batch of Thymol treatment pads.

CVB

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 15 of Treatment

Just returned from deepest, darkest Cornwall and managed to complete an inspection before it got too cool in the evening. There were 6 Varroa on the board plus a couple of live earwigs so they may have eaten some mites. The total counted drop for the first phase of the Thymol treatment was 112. There was only a small amount left of the original kitchen roll medium that held the Thymol/oil mix a la Hivemaker.

I've placed the second dose of Thymol in the hive and closed it up for another 14 days - but not without some trepidation - there's only one frame of stores and no brood with 8 frames of brood having hatched out in the last two weeks. I was kind of hoping that the Ivy would put them in good shape for the winter but now I think I must start feeding. Any observations, you experienced beeks?

 

[pargyle]

Just returned from deepest, darkest Cornwall and managed to complete an inspection before it got too cool in the evening. There were 6 Varroa on the board plus a couple of live earwigs so they may have eaten some mites. The total counted drop for the first phase of the Thymol treatment was 112. There was only a small amount left of the original kitchen roll medium that held the Thymol/oil mix a la Hivemaker.

I've placed the second dose of Thymol in the hive and closed it up for another 14 days - but not without some trepidation - there's only one frame of stores and no brood with 8 frames of brood having hatched out in the last two weeks. I was kind of hoping that the Ivy would put them in good shape for the winter but now I think I must start feeding. Any observations, you experienced beeks?

Well, I don't know about experienced but ... with one frame of stores ... unless they are foraging like mad on Balsam and Ivy you are certainly going to have to feed... question is not if but when as you have treatment still in place ? You will need to see at least 7/8 frames full to see them through the winter ... and that's either a lot of forage or a couple of gallons of syrup. It's not getting any warmer so you might consider 2:1 rather than 1:1 as there is less water for them to evaporate when you start feeding.

 

[Swarm]

Plenty of evidence at the entrances that the bees are working Balsam, not so much evidence in the comb. The Balsam ain't providing the bounty it usually does, at least not in these parts.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just returned from deepest, darkest Cornwall and managed to complete an inspection before it got too cool in the evening. There were 6 Varroa on the board plus a couple of live earwigs so they may have eaten some mites. The total counted drop for the first phase of the Thymol treatment was 112.

I've placed the second dose of Thymol in the hive there's no brood

You have NO BROOD
That's the key.....You can take off the treatment and feed if you need to

 

[mbc]

Colonies I gave a feed to in the first weeks of august now look to have far more bounce than others in the same locations I deemed ok not to feed, these seem to have gone backwards whereas the colonies that have been fed have overtaken them and look good.
I'm mostly hanging on for an Indian summer flow to provide the winter stores but its not happening yet and seems likelier by the day that a heavy feed all round is going to be needed to put the bees into winter in good shape.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Plenty of evidence at the entrances that the bees are working Balsam, not so much evidence in the comb. The Balsam ain't providing the bounty it usually does, at least not in these parts.

they're bringing stuff in, but not to the extent they usually do

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 16 of Treatment

The first count with the fresh Thymol treatment in place - 5 mites, which brings the total to 117 since the start of treatment. I was expecting more than that, given that there was not much of the first phase of the treatment left, when I changed it for fresh stuff yesterday.

So here's the dilemma - do I stop the HM Thymol treatment, either now or in a few days if the mite drop continues to be low and start feeding (I have the thymolised syrup ready and waiting) or wait for the Ivy to kick in and feed in a couple of weeks or so but that depends on the weather over the next month. It may be that it's the treatment that has put the queen off laying, which is why I have no brood, in which case, stopping the treatment (particularly if it's not yielding a significant drop) may be the thing to do - might get the queen laying for the winter brood and start the hiving of some stores. Any obs?

CVB

 

[Tom Bick]

Your bees and queen have reacted to the thymol in that your queen has stopped laying and the bees I suspect soon after starting treatment removed young larvae and eggs from the hive.
Just out of interest you did follow the recipe accurately and given them the correct dose. It may be you did as some bees do react to the thymol and it can stop the queen laying.
As you have no brood in the hive I would as you have considered keep the thymol on the hive for a few more days and monitor the drop and if it remains low then remove it as brood and winter bees are far more important.
It will be interesting to see how they go on with thymolated syrup given the reaction to the pads and if this was me I would be giving them some regular syrup to start with and feed them now.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 17 of Treatment

Varroa drop today was 3, bringing the total for 17 days to 120.

On Saturday, I'm going to A Bit of a Do at Truro, a convention organised by Cornwall's two BKAs so I'll be able to ask local beeks about the timing of the start of feeding - whether to finish the Thymol treatment or abandon it and start feeding. At the moment, I'm leaning towards starting to feed, because the Varroa drop is so low. The weather forecast does not look good for a big Ivy harvest for the bees, so sugar syrup it must be!

CVB

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 18 of Treatment

Only 2 mites dropped today, so it looks like I'm clearing out the dregs now so the total's up to 122.

If I wanted to be sure I'd zapped all the Varroa in any remaining brood cells which should finish hatching on 20th September, I'd have to wait another week. I've decided I could not wait 'til then before starting to feed so I've put some non-thymolised 2:1 sugar syrup on while the HM Thymol treatment is in the hive.

To be honest, there does not seem to be a lot of brood in there now - the suspicion is that the bees do not like the Thymol, so her majesty has stopped laying. I'm hoping the impetus of feeding 2:1 syrup will kickstart some egg laying for winter brood. The alternative is to take the treatment off and let them get on with it.

Is it too late for winter brood - we tend to have mild and late-start winters down here? Any other thoughts?

Thanks for any help.

CVB

 

[user 6228]

CVB, you are using PIR /kingspan "all over covers". I would advise caution with treatments for varroa. Chemical activity and dispersal are temperature dependant, the doses and recommendations are based on much colder hives than yours will be under those covers.

Because of that uncertainty we did not treat last year. All 5 colonies did well this year. However, This sample is too small and there was no set of treated colonies to compare.

One colony this year had some evidence of DWV but this was only a few bees and the rest of the colony look healthy and have been very productive and active.

Keeping bees in PIR is in its early stages, and is very different thermally to wooden hives, so some differences in husbandry are to be expected. What those differences will be? Watch this space

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - Day 19 of Treatment

Another day with only two Varroa dropped - total to date is 124.

Went to A Bit of a Do in Truro today and there was some interesting discussion on non-chemical measures to combat Varroa and selective breeding of bees that will groom off and/or chew mites.

DerekM - the Cosy is not in position yet - I was going to wait until all of the treatments/feeding are out of the way before using it in place of the standard flat roof. At the first opportunity, I will remove the current HM Thymol treatment - now in the fifth day of the second phase. I'm worried about the absence of brood and want to get the queen back in laying mode before the weather deteriorates further - she stopped laying after the Thymol went on - and to help with this I've put a rapid feeder on with 2:1 syrup. Even if the Ivy flow does not come soon, they'll have something to stimulate them.

CVB

 

[sunhivebee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2jcZr4HfTU

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Lustig, Heidi! Love the backdrop!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Keeping bees in PIR is in its early stages, and is very different thermally to wooden hives, so some differences in husbandry are to be expected. What those differences will be? Watch this space

Derek: poly hives should be an indication, no? Is there a history of poly hive colonies being overdosed with Apiguard?

 

[user 6228]

Derek: poly hives should be an indication, no? Is there a history of poly hive colonies being overdosed with Apiguard?

PIR is as different to conventional poly as poly is to wood. The
only thing it's close to is tree nests, and there is very little info on them (none!).
PIR is so dramatically different to conventional poly that I couldn't say if its valid to extrapolate from poly. That why I recommend caution. I wish I had hard data but I don't.

 

[REDWOOD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2jcZr4HfTU

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Varroa Count - 20th and Last Day of Treatment

I did a count today before I took the Thymol treatment off. 1 mite only, so the total Varroa count for the treatment was 125.

Not sure what all this proves. I had a low drop count before the treatment and was persuaded by comments on this forum that even if you don't see them or count them, they are still there and should be treated. With hindsight, I should perhaps have had the courage of my original convictions and left them alone. We live and learn!

Thanks for your link, Heidi, to the song clip. Nicely decorated hives in the background! Where have I seen those before?

One of the things I will be doing, in future, when doing Varroa monitoring using a sticky board below the OMF is to check whether the bees are doing any damage to the mites that drop - are the bees going after the mites aggressively and cleaning out the Varroa? There are beekeepers down here who are trying to breed that characteristic into their colonies - see http://www.jameskilty.co.uk/beekeeping/improvement.htm For the bees to develop this behaviour, there has to be some mites in there for them to practise on!

CVB