vsh - form your own opinion

[Finman]

Others might say if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem

Heh heh heh heh. I am a part of varroa problem... Well said anyway.
.
Even if you are a beekeeper, you may use your brains.
.

 

[B+.]

Others might say if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem

Actually, I'm very much part of the solution. I test my colonies intensively but got fed up with people wanting everything handed to them on a plate. I do lots of reading around the subject (some of it needing translation - as was the case with the attached from Kirchhain).

 

[Finman]

Actually, I'm very much part of the solution. ).

Yes. Your writings tell, what it is to be part of solution. It demands lots of skills and work, and co operation with foreign countries. Mere opinion does not help. Neither singing in chorus.

I have tried to be a part of solution, when I have told how get ridd of chalkbrood and EFB. It seems that no one care about advices in Britain. In other countries they use those advices. And tested varroa recipes real Englishman invent himself and shanges the recipe.

Such is life when beekeepers' average age is 60 years.

 

[B+.]

Yes. Your writings tell, what it is to be part of solution. It demands lots of skills and work, and co operation with foreign countries. Mere opinion does not help. Neither singing in chorus.

I have tried to be a part of solution, when I have told how get ridd of chalkbrood and EFB. It seems that no one care about advices in Britain. In other countries they use those advices. And tested varroa recipes real Englishman invent himself and shanges the recipe.

Such is life when beekeepers' average age is 60 years.

I was born and grew up on Tyneside, UK (although I now live in Bedfordshire). I am an Englishman.
Nationality has nothing to do with it Finman. It's whether you have an open mind, are willing to do the work and share the results with others (who are similarly motivated).
I am a member of the Dutch BeeBreed group and the German AGT (varroa tolerance working group)....but, I'm also a member of my local beekeeping association (Bedfordshire). There is no conflict of interest

 

[domino]

I've gotten to the point where measuring and managing varroa is so routine in my beekeeping that trying to artificially introduce and maintain a line of VSH bees would be more effort than it is worth for me.

 

[B+.]

I've gotten to the point where measuring and managing varroa is so routine in my beekeeping that trying to artificially introduce and maintain a line of VSH bees would be more effort than it is worth for me.

Do you mean by treatment?
The purpose of VSH is to reduce the varroa population to levels so that treatment isn't necessary.

 

[Beefriendly]

Do you mean by treatment?
The purpose of VSH is to reduce the varroa population to levels so that treatment isn't necessary.

But does this trait breed true when outside of an artificially controlled breeding program?
i.e Open mated with no control over drone lines.

 

[Finman]

But does this trait breed true when outside of an artificially controlled breeding program?
i.e Open mated with no control over drone lines.

He writes that "purpose is".

The truth is, that in USA hobby beekeepers loose 50% of their hives annually, when they trust, that hives do not need varroa treatment.

So much I understand, that VHS does not succeed in open mating.

I have nothing to do with VHS. I am not a problem neither solution. No one in Finland sells VHS queens. 3 frame colony in winter is impossible.
.

 

[B+.]

But does this trait breed true when outside of an artificially controlled breeding program?
i.e Open mated with no control over drone lines.

No. There will be a loss of effectiveness over the generations just like other traits. However, if enough drones are raised from other high VSH queens, you can slow the rate of loss by saturating the area with drones carrying the VSH trait.

As Finman says, beekeepers in America have lost colonies despite having VSH. So, it is important that people understand what VSH is. It will suppress the reproduction of varroa mites by targeting those mites which are reproducing in cells, but it will not (usually) eradicate the mites. It will just contain them at a level which the colony should be able to withstand.

Let's not forget that this trait is present at low levels in any population. A high VSH expression just means the colony (and, by that, I mean a colony of the queens progeny so it will take a while before her daughters have replaced all the other workers in a nuc she is introduced into) will contain the rapid expansion in the varroa population so the colony can do all the other things it must do without chemical treatment.

 

[foghornleghorn]

But does this trait breed true when outside of an artificially controlled breeding program?
i.e Open mated with no control over drone lines.

You could order a queen and see for yourself. Paul jungles has a 100% vsh buckfast line AFAIK

 

[Finman]

You could order a queen and see for yourself. Paul jungles has a 100% vsh buckfast line AFAIK

Do you have those and how it goes?

 

[foghornleghorn]

Do you have those and how it goes?

No don't have them

 

[B+.]

No don't have them

100% VSH are as rare as hens teeth in Europe, but I know a few breeders have them. The focus is on maintaining and increasing the number so that the trait isn't lost through inbreeding.
That's why I am always "over the moon" whenever I can increase the VSH in my own bees.

 

[mbc]

I cannot imagine anyone with a significant number of bees can find the time for such testing without help, I certainly couldnt .

 

[B+.]

I cannot imagine anyone with a significant number of bees can find the time for such testing without help, I certainly couldnt .

That is why people have to work together to test stock. The logic is inescapable.

 

[foghornleghorn]

I cannot imagine anyone with a significant number of bees can find the time for such testing without help, I certainly couldnt .

Austria's largest beekeeper circa 7,000 hives is involved in the same type of testing as b+

 

[domino]

Do you mean by treatment?
The purpose of VSH is to reduce the varroa population to levels so that treatment isn't necessary.

I understand why people want VSH bees. My point is that I monitor for varroa now, even with VSH queens I'd still monitor.

The only thing I'd stop doing is treating.

Treating is less effort, for me, than having to maintain a VSH line of queens in my colonies.

 

[Finman]

Austria's largest beekeeper circa 7,000 hives is involved in the same type of testing as b+

New Zealand started second project to rear varroa resistant bees, but I have not seen any report, how it goes.

Private beekeepers sell too varroa resistant queens, but how good they are, I do not know.

Perhaps not very good, because there is not much to tell.

First project was "break through" 2007 but then it collapsed. At least after selection they had too narrow genepool to continue. They got start from German Carniolans.
.

 

[B+.]

I understand why people want VSH bees. My point is that I monitor for varroa now, even with VSH queens I'd still monitor.

The only thing I'd stop doing is treating.

Treating is less effort, for me, than having to maintain a VSH line of queens in my colonies.

The title of the thread is "form your own opinion", so, I don't have a problem with that. However, some people prefer not to put all manor of "treatments" in their hives. Apart from the cost (Time and money) you've no way of knowing what the effect will be "down the line".
It seems to me that most people are happy to buy in their queens (according to a recent poll on this forum) so, why not ask for one which comes with a whole range of useful traits?

 

[B+.]

New Zealand started second project to rear varroa resistant bees

Austria's largest beekeeper circa 7,000 hives is involved in the same type of testing as b+

He said Austria, not Australia. What has any of this to do with New Zealand?

It sounds like the selection intensity was too high.