vsh - form your own opinion

[domino]

The title of the thread is "form your own opinion", so, I don't have a problem with that. However, some people prefer not to put all manor of "treatments" in their hives. Apart from the cost (Time and money) you've no way of knowing what the effect will be "down the line".
It seems to me that most people are happy to buy in their queens (according to a recent poll on this forum) so, why not ask for one which comes with a whole range of useful traits?

I like raising my own queens and swapping them with friends. It's the best bit of beekeeping for me.

I've gotten to the point where varroa just isn't a problem for me. I have a routine, I measure it and treat when needed. It's not enough of a problem for me to add something else into my season.

 

[B+.]

I like raising my own queens and swapping them with friends. It's the best bit of beekeeping for me.

I've gotten to the point where varroa just isn't a problem for me. I have a routine, I measure it and treat when needed. It's not enough of a problem for me to add something else into my season.

No problem. If you're happy with what you have, stick with it.

 

[Finman]

He said Austria, not Australia. What has any of this to do with New Zealand

It sounds like the selection intensity was too high.

As well as Austria, Nz try to breed varroa tolerant bees. Why I cannot mention it?

When it is so easy to buy varroa tolerant bees, why NZ does not buy them as ready...

( first I read it as Australia, but it has no varroa)

I found Arataki queens, about which home page says, that they are better on varroa tolerancy than US queens. Their origin is from three European breeding centre. Document 2017.
.
20 000 hives and Queen production 30 000. !!!
.

 

[B+.]

When it is so easy to buy varroa tolerant bees, why NZ does not buy them as ready...

We could have a long (and tedious to the majority of beekeepers on here) conversation about that.
Essentially, we're still working on VSH here in Europe. Our approach is different to that taken in America (i.e. America used mdi and focused on that one trait, European breeders use sdi and focus on many). Naturally, it is taking much longer here, but, some breeders already have 100% VSH.
I just received 2 single drone inseminated (sdi) VSH queens today (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3950). They will join my test group for next year but I will certainly inseminate some daughter queens from them.

 

[Finman]

We could have a long (and tedious to the majority of beekeepers on here) conversation about that.
.

I can wait, but, I found the answer. They bought ready stocks from Europe to continue breeding.

 

[foghornleghorn]

We could have a long (and tedious to the majority of beekeepers on here) conversation about that.
Essentially, we're still working on VSH here in Europe. Our approach is different to that taken in America (i.e. America used mdi and focused on that one trait, European breeders use sdi and focus on many). Naturally, it is taking much longer here, but, some breeders already have 100% VSH.
I just received 2 single drone inseminated (sdi) VSH queens today (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3950). They will join my test group for next year but I will certainly inseminate some daughter queens from them.

Will you get a production season out of SDI queens in full hives?

 

[B+.]

Will you get a production season out of SDI queens in full hives?

Yes. There is more than enough sperm in a single drone to fill the queens spermatheca.
However, I'll inseminate lots of daughters from them next year to generate multiple lines. I have some other excellent stock which I'll use for reciprocal crosses.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Yes. There is more than enough sperm in a single drone to fill the queens spermatheca.
However, I'll inseminate lots of daughters from them next year to generate multiple lines. I have some other excellent stock which I'll use for reciprocal crosses.

Best of luck with it.

 

[B+.]

Best of luck with it.

Thanks
I should explain that, however attractive VSH may appear, I will consider the whole portfolio of traits. If they're not productive, swarm resistant or docile enough....it's back to the drawing board.

 

[Beefriendly]

No. There will be a loss of effectiveness over the generations just like other traits. However, if enough drones are raised from other high VSH queens, you can slow the rate of loss by saturating the area with drones carrying the VSH trait.

Let's be realistic B+. How likely is this drone saturation?
The queens you work with are not (currently) commercially available. Yes, you supply a few people with your queens but are not a major queen supplier.
You save a few quid by not having to buy Oxalic acid and vaping each year ( or whatever).
Good to know VSH exists.
Bad it's not commercially available for most beekeepers.

 

[Finman]

.
Drone saturation belongs to the anti varroa dreams. IT is in every breeders home page. But research says that is does not succeed with hybrids.

One VHS Queen against 100 mongrel hives. Mongrels swarm and produce every year 2 new colonies.

 

[B+.]

.
Drone saturation belongs to the anti varroa dreams. IT is in every breeders home page. But research says that is does not succeed with hybrids.

One VHS Queen against 100 mongrel hives. Mongrels swarm and produce every year 2 new colonies.

You are so short-sighted Finman. What of her drones? Even if her female progeny didn't express the trait, her drones could mate with lots of virgin queens.

 

[Beefriendly]

You are so short-sighted Finman. What of her drones? Even if her female progeny didn't express the trait, her drones could mate with lots of virgin queens.

B+ we already know the trait is not dominant..it dilutes at every breeding.
How does this help beekeepers?
Other than VSH can be achieved but currently not in natural situations.

 

[B+.]

B+ we already know the trait is not dominant..it dilutes at every breeding.

There you go again Beefriendly,always looking for that "free lunch". Every trait will diminish over the generations if you do nothing to reinforce it. I must have said that at least a dozen times. Why would you think you could solve all your problems forever by buying a single queen?

 

[Beefriendly]

There you go again Beefriendly,always looking for that "free lunch". Every trait will diminish over the generations if you do nothing to reinforce it. I must have said that at least a dozen times. Why would you think you could solve all your problems forever by buying a single queen?

No B+ never look for free lunch. It doesn't exist.
My criticisms of your breeding programme are it doesn't provide queens for enough beekeepers to produced sufficient drones/queens. It's restricted to the privileged people who have access to the material. It's important work, but until the results (queens) are available to joe public it remains what it is ...a closed shop.

 

[B+.]

No B+ never look for free lunch. It doesn't exist.
My criticisms of your breeding programme are it doesn't provide queens for enough beekeepers to produced sufficient drones/queens. It's restricted to the privileged people who have access to the material. It's important work, but until the results (queens) are available to joe public it remains what it is ...a closed shop.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. It sounds to me like you're complaining about not having VSH, or any of the other traits breeders work on, but you aren't doing any of the work to get it. Now, tell me I'm wrong.
You seem to want the "star prize" without doing any work to get it. What's more, you want it in perpetuity! Now, that sounds like winning the lottery every day to me.
A breeder will ALWAYS have better stock than is commercially available. It's common sense IMHO

Yes, I am using my "network" to improve my stock but that works both ways. It's only by co-operating with others that any of us win. I've made no secret of what I do. In fact, I encourage all of you to do the same!

 

[Beefriendly]

A breeder will ALWAYS have better stock than is commercially available. It's common sense IMHO

Wouldn't disagree with that in the slightest.
But if the overall strategy is to have bees in the whole of the UK with VSH traits?
How are you going to achieve that?

 

[B+.]

Wouldn't disagree with that in the slightest.
But if the overall strategy is to have bees in the whole of the UK with VSH traits?
How are you going to achieve that?

You talk of it as though it's "supplier push" rather than "customer pull". It's not my role to supply every beekeeper in the country with VSH whether he wants it, or not. At least one person in this thread has said they don't want it. That's his choice.

 

[Finman]

You are so short-sighted Finman. What of her drones? Even if her female progeny didn't express the trait, her drones could mate with lots of virgin queens.

Lets hope so

 

[Beefriendly]

It's not my role to supply every beekeeper in the country with VSH whether he wants it, or not.

Your role seems to be to dangle the carrot in front of the donkey.
EeeeAwww.
What is the point of achieving VSH if the bees are only available for a privileged few?