Do you have VSH Queens

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I am currently of the opinion that we should all seek to use VSH Queens when we elect to purchase a queen.
This I believe will have a minute but cumulative effect on the honey bee population to evolve in a way that helps them live with varroa .

I also think beeks that breed their own queens should consider purchasing the odd vhs queen to compare .

I’m interested in other beeks real life experience of Vsh queens .compared with non Vsh queens in the same year.

what are your mite loads like
What was honey production like
 
I am currently of the opinion that we should all seek to use VSH Queens
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Doesn't mean it's necessarily the right one.
 
I prefer to rear from the best of my local bees. Using " soft" chemicals and various management techniques varroa has yet to become problematic in any of my hives. Being a thinking beekeeper I do not see the problem.
 
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Doesn't mean it's necessarily the right one.

hence my question, and comment on what my possition is. I’m happy to change that opinion /position if given the evidence to do so.
At the moment I am a little perplexed as to why there seems to be a lot of negativity towards vsh
 
hence my question, and comment on what my possition is. I’m happy to change that opinion /position if given the evidence to do so.
At the moment I am a little perplexed as to why there seems to be a lot of negativity towards vsh
It's a complex trait governed by at least three genes which quickly leaves a population without the consistent management to keep it there and there's usually a pay off in productivity when selecting for it.
I don't think any free flying population would keep vhs for long in the UK so if your going down that route you're pretty much ensuring that you're on a constant treadmill of buying in queens from elsewhere( unless you're one of the very few beekeepers who tests and selects obsessively).
It's a bit of a long shot to imagine vhs bees as a sustainable answer to our lobg term varroa problem as things stand imho
 
I had to Google VHS queens. If you start a new thread it's helpful if you don't use initials from the off.

Quite right
Varroa Sensitive Hygiene
For anyone that has read this far and doesn’t know,
Queens who’s offspring have an instinct to remove pupi affected with varroa from cells . Thereby reducing the number of varrora and their ability to bread.
 
Quite right
Varroa Sensitive Hygiene
For anyone that has read this far and doesn’t know,
Queens who’s offspring have an instinct to remove pupi affected with varroa from cells . Thereby reducing the number of varrora and their ability to bread.

Can you answer Mark, why USA has 50% dead rate of hives annually, even if they have huge amount of VSH queen sellers in the country. And the biggest reason to the losses is varroa?
 
It's a complex trait governed by at least three genes which quickly leaves a population without the consistent management to keep it there and there's usually a pay off in productivity when selecting for it.
I don't think any free flying population would keep vhs for long in the UK so if your going down that route you're pretty much ensuring that you're on a constant treadmill of buying in queens from elsewhere( unless you're one of the very few beekeepers who tests and selects obsessively).
It's a bit of a long shot to imagine vhs bees as a sustainable answer to our lobg term varroa problem as things stand imho

I disagree, natural selection would mean that vsh bees in the wild ( lost swarms etc) would have a greater chance of survival. My drones if their lucky will impact on the local population albeit by a small margin over time if enough keepers buy into it and go vsh then the Gean pool will be affected just as our black bee has been mongralised by Buckie’s and Carolina etc
It’s a numbers game.
The question I suppose I am really asking is weather or not productivity is good enough for people to want vsh queens . Or would they rather stick with what they have and treat
 
Can you answer Mark, why USA has 50% dead rate of hives annually, even if they have huge amount of VSH queen sellers in the country. And the biggest reason to the losses is varroa?


Hi Finman I thought you were a supporter of vsh and I know you know statistics can be used to support any argument

Unless you know different I think you will find that many bee producers in USA are useing extremely prolific bees for the purpose of pollination. To pollinate specific crops. This is their main form of income and the hives are transient , hives may not be treated due to numbers and I doubt they use vsh queens or feed over winter, as they have no value. At best they harvest queens To simply start again the following year .
If on the other hand you have evidence that 50% of colloneys from vsh queens are dying due to varroa then I would be a very different statistic and indeed one would have to question the validity of buying a vsh queen in the first place.
 

Mark. Your explanation is hollow, and self invented, because summer losses are 30 % and winter losses 20%.

I have not seen statistics/ research, how many VSH colonies die annually. Neither I have not seen how many Russian bee colonies have died.

I have not heard that US beekeepers nurse their bees that they can kill them.

Hobby beekeepers' losses are 70 % and I do not believe either that hobby beekeepers keep hives that they can kill them at the end of summer.
Mark, for your next answer learn to use statistics to support you self made innovations.

US hives losses had been reported 15 years, and I have not seen such results what you offered just now .
What I mean, do not keep other guys fool, even if you are smart.

And I hope some respect for real bee researching...
 
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Mark. Your explanation is hollow, and self invented, because summer losses are 30 % and winter losses 20%.

Hi Finman it was self invented opinion on one of the reasons USA suffers such high losses,
I note in one study commercial beekeeper losses are lower than back yard keepers,
I quite think that the use and type of pesticides still used in USA will have an impact
as will the extremes of weather and other vectors like shb which I understand can while out collones very quickly,

however nothing I have read makes a correlation between high losses of colonels and vsh bees
But I am happy to be corrected as per my second post in the thread I think,
 
Hi Finman it was self invented opinion on one of the reasons USA suffers such high losses,
I note in one study commercial beekeeper losses are lower than back yard keepers,
I quite think that the use and type of pesticides still

But Mark, you are not able to read official raports beehive losses in the USA. You continue your quessing. What is the value of your opinions on the side of research reports?

Yeah, you are tight, in the last report it was said that pesticides is among biggest reasons to losses.

It takes two minutes to find the report from internet and read it.
.
 
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But Mark, you are not able to read official raports beehive losses in the USA. You continue your quessing. What is the value of your opinions on the side of research reports?

Yeah, you are tight, in the last report it was said that pesticides is among biggest reasons to losses.

It takes two minutes to find the report from internet and read it.
.

Hi finman I think I must be missing something in what you are saying or asking. I have read the BIP report and a few associated articles and cannot find a link Between high colony loses in USA and your info that they use a lot of vsh queens .the report as I understand it reflects 10% of managed colony’s. In USA

I do not make any claim that my opinion is worth anything if it is contradicts any scientific finding or reasonable study or the experience and expertise of someone like yourself.
I have a view of the world and an opinion in this instance that using vsh queens is a good thing.

I have implied that if someone can can demonstrate ,or explain to me why that opinion is wrong I will revise my opinion.

I noted in some threads a negativity to vsh queens or there potential so searched the forum for specific threads on vsh queens and colony performance.
Because I didn’t find any I decided to start a thread with the question


I’m interested in other beeks real life experience of Vsh queens .compared with non Vsh queens in the same year.

what are your mite loads like
What was honey production like
 
Mark,

I am interested in your proposition, and somewhat disheartened by the current response by some others, including mods and other 'senior' forum members.

I started beekeeping a long time after varroa made its entrance into the UK. Nonetheless, I speak to many older beekeepers who - back then - experienced totally devastating losses as a result of the mite. Obviously, varroa is still a very large issue, not least as high loads will inevitably serve as a vector for viruses etc...

That said, I would wager that, nowadays, most of us could move to a nigh-on 'treatment free' regime, and get our bees through the winter, and probably through another couple of years, before the related disease load took an ultimate toll. I have (and have had) colonies not only surviving, but thriving, in spite of very heavy mite loads...... though I appreciate it's not ideal, and will ultimately (whenever) lead to the bees' demise.

So I treat; as most of us do (and should).

However, given the point that varroa is here to stay, the more profound issue here is that we need to accept that the two organisms need to co-evolve; indeed, I think most would concede that, over the previous 20, 30, 40 years there has already been co-evolution to the point that honeybees in the UK can *generally* tolerate varroa, to a degree. In fact, let's face it.. over those timelines, it's not evolution, it's adaptation.

VSH bees are clearly better adapted, so why wouldn't a beekeeper seek to introduce those VSH genes to improve their stock ? Why should we (as you suggest) NOT be promoting this ?

So, to the thrust of your question … Is there a tangible benefit to keeping VSH bees ? What does it achieve ?

To mbc's point that, if you go down this (VSH) route, you need to constantly keep on top of the genes to make sure the traits are not being diluted over time ... well, I guess that's about regression, and is probably a fair point.

Nonetheless, take humans out of the equation; whichever way you spin the coin, co-evolution/VSH traits are the ONLY way that bees will cope with the endemic mite going forward. That is an almost inarguable point. You can fight it with all your toxic Amitraz etc... but the bees will need to have evolved a coping mechanism long after we have gone.

For me, it (the underlying philosophy) forms one of the key discussions about how we manage our bees over the next few decades.

So, it's therefore more than a little disappointing to see how mods (and other similar senior members, recent mods) respond to you as OP.

Emyr - your first comment seems to basically say, "you're welcome to your opinion, but please stick it up your arse"

Dani - of all things, you sit tight and then take umbrage at spelling (“pupi”/”pupae”), when I thought this place was a ‘broader church’ than that, and lots of spelling and grammatical errors are (rightly, nowadays) permitted to flow ... I don't see you asking who (other Mark) Curly Green is fingering, as his name suggests ??

Disappointing and passive aggressive.

I personally think Mark's musings on VSH Queens/colonies warrant proper discussion.

Or have I missed something on VSH Queens ?? Are they actually the spawn of satan ?
 
'senior' forum members.
Don't say things like that it gives them delusions of grandeur ;)

Personally, I would prefer to work with the bees in my area to deal with the problems in my area.
 

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