Trailer Bees

[pargyle]

So in essence if you want big yields in the UK put two big colonies on a 4*3 trailer and tow them around to osr , raspberry, lime, borage, HB, heather and finish off with a bit of ivy. I'd expect 100kg+ a hive from that with a bit of half decent weather!

Hmmm ... But at what expense to the bees ? We know that migratory beekeeping in the USA has had pretty disasterous effects on their bees.

Bees normally only move a few miles (and less) when they swarm. They don't upsticks as a colony to go to the rape, or the borage, or the raspberry fields - I don't have an issue with the odd move to take advantage of a seasonal crop but perpetual movement of bee colonies, effectively to exploit them, is not what I believe is good for bees.

The bee colony is a complex, social, multi-level, organism and the more we disturb their natural way of living the more disserrvice we do them. Finman's way of beekeeping is as much anathema to me as keeping hens ten to a square metre for their eggs. He has diseased, varroa ridden, bees and I can see why ....

 

[Finman]

. Finman's way of beekeeping is as much anathema to me as keeping hens ten to a square metre for their eggs. He has diseased, varroa ridden, bees and I can see why ....

What you have Pargyle....

Sure my 8 box hives are so sick, so sick.

Eggs...the egg costs 5 cents a piece in Finland. Good business.

When you have 1000 hens, you get 500 £. With one beehive (sick) I get the same.
The healthy hive may forage 400 kg in summer. But I have only sick bees.

In England healthy top Bar hive gets 5 kg in 6 months.
.half kilo in a month.

I cannot see why. Why not?
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[maddydog]

Hmmm ... But at what expense to the bees ? We know that migratory beekeeping in the USA has had pretty disasterous effects on their bees ....

My summary was given with a certain amount of tongue in cheek I don't suppose many would take it seriously. However, I think bees are tougher than you think and the scenario I gave is a world away from US migratory beekeeping.

 

[Zante]

Hmmm ... But at what expense to the bees ? We know that migratory beekeeping in the USA has had pretty disasterous effects on their bees.

From what I understand the problem with bees in the US is that they have vast monocultures where bees are used for pollination, and by monoculture I mean that anything else is suppressed. That means that bees only get one type of pollen in and not enough nutritional variety, and therefore get weaker.

IIRC I read a description of vast almond groves where the farmers put dark coverings on the ground around the trees so that nothing else grows there. That should tell you how "mono" those cultures are...

 

[pargyle]

From what I understand the problem with bees in the US is that they have vast monocultures where bees are used for pollination, and by monoculture I mean that anything else is suppressed. That means that bees only get one type of pollen in and not enough nutritional variety, and therefore get weaker.

IIRC I read a description of vast almond groves where the farmers put dark coverings on the ground around the trees so that nothing else grows there. That should tell you how "mono" those cultures are...

Yes, you are quite right, that is part of the problem ... but the bees are often carted on trucks thousands of miles whilst they follow the pollination 'rota' around the USA - the money is as much from pollination service fees as from the honey..... it's terrible for the bees whichever way you look at it.

I know migratory beekeeping in Europe is nothing like the states but on a smaller scale it must be detrimental ...

 

[ladaok]

I have studied statistics in university.
Do you know that there are civilization oversees too.

I have university education in biologian researcher, but I did my career as public engineering researching.
My last work before I retired was "preventive quality control in city maintenance".


But do you know how to make good honey yields? Everybody understand "average".

My best hive has brought 200 kg ..

I don't really care what you've done in past lives, all I can say is your answering skills to a simple question are well below AVERAGE, you keep on clouding the issue with .....
You really should be over here in kiwiland, with your skills you'ld make an absolute fortune

 

[Finman]

I don't really care what you've done in past lives, all I can say is your answering skills to a simple question are well below AVERAGE, y

But your style to ask ..an average football huligan. You should be in the zoo.

30 kg honey per hive? I got that much 1966 when I bought swarms and I made 2-box hives. I got from swarms 40 kg/hive.

Then last year 4 hive group. They brought in 4 weeks every hive over 100 kg/hive.
Another 2 hive group 70 kg from rape in 3 weeks.

I am quite sure that you have not in Kiwiland pasture knowledge like Australia does.

I am master or science in botany, and I can say that Pasture Analysis is the most difficult. You can always buy good queen's from breeders, but you cannot buy wisdom,to where to put your hives and how many.
I really have thought that your yield or there is 2-3 fold compared to that what it is.

In Canada they often get 90 kg average yields. But they are 80%professionals.
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[Finman]

My summary was given with a certain amount of tongue in cheek I don't suppose many would take it seriously. However, I think bees are tougher than you think and the scenario I gave is a world away from US migratory beekeeping.

1966 I migrate my hives with bicycle. IT was 15 km distance to reach good fireweed and heather pastures.

If you harvest rape honey, you must migrate your hives. You cannot wait that rape fields come go you.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I know migratory beekeeping in Europe is nothing like the states but on a smaller scale it must be detrimental ...

And sometimes very beneficial, good, for the bees.

 

[ladaok]

But your style to ask ..an average football huligan. You should be in the zoo.

30 kg honey per hive? I got that much 1966 when I bought swarms and I made 2-box hives. I got from swarms 40 kg/hive.

Then last year 4 hive group. They brought in 4 weeks every hive over 100 kg/hive.
Another 2 hive group 70 kg from rape in 3 weeks.

I am quite sure that you have not in Kiwiland pasture knowledge like Australia does.

I am master or science in botany, and I can say that Pasture Analysis is the most difficult. You can always buy good queen's from breeders, but you cannot buy wisdom,to where to put your hives and how many.
I really have thought that your yield or there is 2-3 fold compared to that what it is.

In Canada they often get 90 kg average yields. But they are 80%professionals.
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yes your right Mr Finman, I am in deed a footie ( rugby ) hooligan,... I see what other posters mean ... I'll move on, .. good luck with your peddling

 

[Finman]

yes your right Mr Finman, I am in deed a footie ( rugby ) hooligan,... I see what other posters mean ... I'll move on, .. good luck with your peddling

You should renew your joke collection. But you are good on your average. Laugh releases all good feelings in your body.
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[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am master or science in botany,
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Ooooh, that's a new one we haven't heard before

they must give away degrees on the back of cornflake packets out there!!

 

[Finman]

Ooooh, that's a new one we haven't heard before

they must give away degrees on the back of cornflake packets out there!!

You must arrange an inspection. Some old lady (over 80 y) revieles a Finnish professional lier". But why to bother, because your opinion is that I do not even exist.

By the way, you use to hear everything wrong. B+ has too the same mysterious ability to read.

PS. Jenkins, go back to sleep. Count first your lovely sheeps..
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[maddydog]

Bees normally only move a few miles (and less) when they swarm. They don't upsticks as a colony to go to the rape, or the borage, or the raspberry fields - I don't have an issue with the odd move to take advantage of a seasonal crop but perpetual movement of bee colonies, effectively to exploit them, is not what I believe is good for bees.

I doubt such monocultures were around when bees evolved the swarm response but that doesn't mean they wouldn't move from crop to crop given the chance!
As for 'good for bees' I think that's a bit subjective. When I started I had maybe 15000 bees, lets say now I have a million live ones but millions have died along the way - have I been good for bees? I've tended them to the best of my ability and they've been treated for pest and diseases as appropriate. I've never had a brood disease, occasional nosemic colonies, hardly any chalkbrood and of the viral diseases just a handful of DWV individuals.
Given the chance I'd move colonies around on a trailer, whether it makes sense financially is another question.
You may not agree with Finnie on anything but I believe he is correct about pasture quality and stocking levels being the key to large yields.

 

[pargyle]

I I've tended them to the best of my ability and they've been treated for pest and diseases as appropriate. I've never had a brood disease, occasional nosemic colonies, hardly any chalkbrood and of the viral diseases just a handful of DWV individuals.
Given the chance I'd move colonies around on a trailer, whether it makes sense financially is another question.
You may not agree with Finnie on anything but I believe he is correct about pasture quality and stocking levels being the key to large yields.

I really am not evangelical about the way I keep bees ... I've never criticised anyone on here for treating for varroa, feeding their bees or taking them to the rape or the heather - or anything else for that matter (perhaps with one exception !). I'm for live and let live - virtually all the beekeepers I know and come into contact with have one thing in common, they all love their bees and will do anything to keep their colonies alive and thriving and I'm happy for anyone who succeeds when following their chosen path.

However, the more I read about our Finnish friends methods of keeping bees the more I come to realise that he has little in common with many of the beekeepers on here. Most of us get a honey crop of a level the colony can produce - usually from a surplus - we nurture our queens and let them grow old (the colony usually sorts out the old dears past their sell by date in my hives) and on the whole we are not beekeeping for a living - it's a hobby that, in a good year, makes a bit of money for us and a lot of the time we are lucky to break even.

I would be delighted if my bees managed a surplus of 150Kg a hive - but I'm not going to lose sleep if they don't ....or try and find ways to force them to. That's where Finnie and I differ ... I see his point of view - I totally get it - I don't agree with it - honey at any cost - is anathema.

 

[Finman]

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I remember when Pargyle have had a hivenen 2 months a 6 frame hive, and how good he was in nursing his 6 frames. I have learned much from Pargyle.

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[Finman]

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My beekeeping is based totally on migrative beekeeping.

When I carry my bees to pastures, I look, that there are no others bees, and do not share pastures between other beekeepers. This year I must move some hives away from two places, because it was too much bumble bees there. 5 times more than bees.

And I do not put my bees compete with each other. All hives must have efficient work.

To fly from empty flower to another is waste of bees, work. I see from landing board how fat are bees when they arrive to home. That is not difficult. Even if I try, 3 fold difference between pastures is common. It is very difficult to estimate, what flowers and how much is inside the radius of 2 km.

The amount of yield depends on the trip, how much bees must fly to arrive to pastures. And then return. Half of yield will be consumed as fuell if nectar is over 1 km distance from the hive. And bees get tired.

 

[Finman]

How to love bees

You think that you love bees, when they harvest pastures, where they hardly get fuel to return to home. But you really need Love towards the bees, if they do not bring you anything year after year. I would call it unhappy marriage.

I do not mind even comment those guys, who say that they love bees, and that is why they do not care about yield. They have unhappy marriage. The fact is, that they just do not know how to get honey.

It took me decades to understand, how the yields really plays. I thought that is busy bees, which give the honey yield, but in fact it is pastures. Me and my bees, we love pastures!!!!.

And then, the bees need a big hive where to store that big amount of nectar. They store nectar, not honey. Nectar need 3 times more room than ready honey.

They can store into 4 box hive about 40-50 kg capped honey. Into 6 box hive they can store 120 kg capped honey. But but that nectar store too. ...Extract often and so it goes.

I do not love bees , if I carry them to best pastures.... Amen to that!
At the beginning of my beekeeping an old chap did not sell to me his hives because I carry them to the woods. His lovely hives must be under home window.



The fact is that the amount of yield has nothing to do with love. Bees feel hate to you and they love to sting you.

When bees do not just get more nectar from environment, they become tired when searching food and they will die before than those, who carry full loads from short distance .

When autumn comes and flowers are finnish, the colony colapses in two weeks from 6 boxes to 2 boxes. They die on field when they search nectar but get nothing.

You may see too that when it is rainy week and bees cannot fly, the size of the hive grows with one box.
That is the speed with which bees die on field every day.
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[Finman]

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It is easy to love a rich

It is more nice to cry on the back seat of Mercedes than on Taunus
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[Finman]

they wouldn't move from crop to crop given the chance!
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over 90% out of British beekeepers are back yard hives owners who do not move their hives anywhere. And top bar hives are impossible to move. The combs collapse.

But if you have over 15 hives, you MUSt move your bees. If you want to give pollination services, you cannot keep the whole year your bees in same place if the plant blooms 2-3 weeks.

It is ridigilous, if Animalia orders, what others to do with bees. Adult people

At least they will not come 100 yards closer to my property.
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Animal lovers.... How do I get into mind the Welsh . But with bees...why not one sting..
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