To treat or not for varroa

[Brosville]

post 99!

 

[tonybloke]

post 100

 

[Poly Hive]

101.

So............ ?

another thread utterly wasted with the moving goalposts.

PH

 

[Brosville]

In that case it's pretty easy to bring it back on course - we have someone who is not using many of the techniques so beloved of many UK "conventional" beekeepers to control varroa, and he is reporting that noone in his area (who use similar methods to him) are having problems - we can summarise those as "minimal interference" with the hives, no suppression of swarming, no use of miticides, no drone brood culling.......... I needn't reiterate the "usual" UK methods, people are harping on about them all the time....

So if we believe Chris (I do), then we have something to learn from him - I personally don't think it has much to do with his local mongrel queens, and a lot to do with management methods - there you go, back on track

 

[Poly Hive]

If a strain of bee is truly varroa resistant, then it will be resistant under normal or conventional managements.

But the situation is that I could sit here and say yes I have the holy grail and when asked to put up or shut up, I say oh well but sorry its away at my Grannies at the moment and not available.

Before this goes further, and to edify the other readers I have had this conversation or variations of it for near ten years. *shrug* with the same outcomes or variations of.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Like an officer on our fleet who is always boasting his Audi sports car - special oil which costs £150.00 every service . Whenever anyone calls at his house there's never a sign of the car 'oh, it's at the garage having a service/valet whatever

 

[Brosville]

As I've said, I don't think you're "getting it" at all - I've not seen any claims from Chris that his local queens are "special" in any way, and probably no more varroa resistant than any local mongrels, BUT his techniques are markedly different to those of many UK beekeepers........

 

[Chris Luck]

Ah I see, not Mary after all, you must forgive me I thought it was l'histoire raising its ugly head again, happens all the time here what with the hundred years war and "The Maid of Orléans".

Sell or give you queens?

No way would I even consider it.

My bees stay local and if and when I sell I sell local.

I can't even think why you would even begin to think yourself important enough in the first place, perhaps there are a few thousand other people that would like some as well? Anyway, I don't raise queens, they raise their own which is of course one of the points.

Chris

 

[Chris Luck]

Actually Poly, if you fancy calling me a liar in public why not tale your chances now.

Chris

 

[Finman]

.
The same gang has discussed this same issue annually at least 5 years.
Only is missing that "poor mating guy" who found to every problem lack of drone semen.

I found a new idea from this chain: world is pretty complex.

 

[Finman]

My bees stay local and if and when I sell I sell local.


Chris

I bought Superbee queens from Cyprus last year. It is second generation going and they are more and more local.

They have donated to my local queens semen, and those are not so local as before.

At least I have douple local hives now. It is like douple nationality.

.

 

[Poly Hive]

No further comment from me.

This is getting personal and that is out with the ethos of the forum.


PH

 

[Chris Luck]

This is getting personal and that is out with the ethos of the forum.

Exactly Poly, but it's you that's making all the innuendos rather than accepting that you are wrong about this matter and as I have repeatedly posted it's the INRA that made the control study...

That's INRA.here they are in ENGLISH.

http://www.international.inra.fr/

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

I search that site for Varroa and get two results neither which apply.

I would love utterly love to be totally and completely wrong and find there is alive and well a resistant varroa strain that was usable for all.

Sadly I cannot. Nor it seems can any of the real big guns in the bee world. I am a mere pygmy after all.

I am bowing out of this thread.

PH

 

[BeeJayBee]

I am bowing out of this thread.

I hope you come back long enough to share the title of the book you have mentioned in this post, please.

Just read a very interesting book on migratory beekeeping in the States, and in passing it was mentioned that frequently it is mentioned that there are colonies in France with no varroa. The thinking in the book was that there are large areas of France still with out the pest. (etc)

 

[Chris Luck]

Your looking for this - you may have to buy it.

Honey bee colonies that have survived Varroa destructor*

Yves Le Contea, Gérard de Vaublanca, Didier Crausera, François Jeanneb, Jean-Claude Roussellec, Jean-Marc B´ecarda a INRA, UMR406, Écologie des Invertébrés, Laboratoire Biologie et Protection de l’Abeille, Site Agroparc,
Domaine Saint-Paul, 84914 Avignon, France b OPIDA, 61370 Echaufour, France c GDS de la Sarthe et Rucher École, route de Brulon, 72000 Le Mans, France Received 14 November 2006 – Revised 11 September 2007 – Accepted 12 September 2007

Abstract – We document the ability of a population of honey bee colonies to survive in France without Varroa suppression measures. We compared the mortality of collected Varroa surviving bee (VSB) stock with that of miticide-treated Varroa-susceptible colonies. Varroa infestation did not induce mortality in the VSB colonies. Some of the original colonies survived more than 11 years without treatment and the average survival of the experimental colonies was 6.54 ± 0.25 years. Swarming was variable (41.50 ± 9.94%) depending on the year. Honey production was significantly higher (1.7 times) in treated than in VSB colonies. For the first time since Varroa invaded France, our results provide evidence that untreated local honey bee colonies can survive the mite, which may be the basis for integrated Varroa management.

This is from the publication - not for the first time either.

So no more excuses for you or "the big guns"

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

The Beekeeper's Lament: How One Man and Half a Billion Honey Bees Help Feed America (Paperback)
by Hannah Nordhaus (Author)

Excellent read.

PH

 

[Brosville]

I'm utterly baffled by "a resistant varroa strain that was usable for all" - from what I've been reading, no claims of the existence of such a thing has been made - I personally think the answer lies elsewhere - in management techniques rather than "just buying queens" which I would think would be destined for failure.........
It's somewhat akin to saying that your dogs (who have a vegan diet and are kept shut in all day) keep dying so buying in some pedigree dogs will solve the problem - change the diet and give them some exercise, it's not the dogs that are "wrong"!

 

[oliver90owner]

If a strain of bee is truly varroa resistant, then it will be resistant under normal or conventional managements.

PH clearly either thinks CL is lying, or he does not understand that it is not just the bees but also the system of management.

I, for one, belive CL is telling the truth and is reaping the benefits of a beekeeping system which is far different from most UK beekeepers.

UK beeks continually requeen using queens bred for certain traits. None of those traits are 'varroa-resistance' related. It is tantamount to requeening with susceptible queens in the Isle of Wight disease era. Little has been learned over the decades since then, it appears.

I doubt very much (well, not for a moment) that Chris has 'varroa-free' bees all the time. What I do believe is that the stocks and management system are such that the varroa parasites are kept under control by the bees (and certainly not by a forever interfering beekeeper).

Some need to actually take in that this (a working system) is really happening and perhaps not be so set in their ways that means change is impossible.

 

[Chris Luck]

It was presented at the Apimondia Congess in Montpellier in 2009.

These conferences are periodically held in different countries and are attended by people from all over the world who interested or involved with the science of bee keeping as I'm sure you know.

www..com/fr/activites/manifestations-passes/congres

Chris