Desperately seeking help!

[Nannysbees]

Quicker than a hedge would be mesh extending upwards, 1" mesh should do, they don't normally fly through that, though of course you could go smaller. Take it up to about 10 feet.

Surely the bees will fly over the mesh?

 

[robinharman]

Go back to the Council and tell them it is a public nuisance under Environmental Act 1990 and provide them with a diary of incidents and include photographs of stings/swarms etc.

If they decline you can do it yourself

This may help you https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8040/CBP-8040.pdf

 

[Sutty]

Surely the bees will fly over the mesh?

They will, but will be higher up so bees on flight lines from the hives will interact less with people & swarms may go the other way or pitch in the garden they started in.

 

[pargyle]

I rather think this is a no-win situation. Going legal will, probably just antagonise the person keeping the bees, involving the council and even inviting the local association to become involved is likely to have similar consequences.

The difficulty the OP faces is that any 'official' action is going to have ramifications if they ever want to sell their property as such disputes do have to be declared - I've been there - the reality is that the neighbour probably realises this and will dig his heels in.

The only way out (and in my case the neighbour dispute when I was selling my late mother's house - after £12k in legal fees and associated costs) is reasonable negotiation.

How the OP can achieve this having reached their existing impasse I really don't know ?

It's difficult to know what the OP finds more annoying - Swarms arriving on their property or getting stung. Both are a nuisance but you would be hard pushed to either demonstrate that the neighbour's bees are the culprits or find any official willing to make a case of it.

There are four options ..

Live with it.
Sell up and move.
Try further (amenable) discussion with the neighbour.
Create a big enough barrier to discourage bees flying directly from the neighbours hives to the OP's property (Fast growing hedging conifers on the boundary ?).

The latter is unlikely to deter swarms but may divert the nuisance bees.

The beekeeper is clearly not particularly responsible if he does, indeed, open feed, leave hives with the roofs off and comb on top of the hives to be cleaned but there are, sadly, no regulations that cover such inept behaviour unless the colonies are suspected of having a notifiable bee disease. Rock and a hard place IMO.

 

[cnb]

Can you describe the swarms just to confirm what is happening?

I did in the first post. They come over in a cloud, pretty much at ground level, the pathway to my home often becomes completely impassable. They do eventually settle somewhere, but in the hour or two after they leave the hive, it's terrifying to everyone (keep in mind we're not bee-keepers).

Most of the stinging I've been subjected to doesn't occur during a swarm, but there are almost always a lot of bees in the air and every so often and angry one arrives that goes on an absolute stinging mission.

On one occasion last Summer we had my Wifes Dad and Step-Mum over, she's disabled. We were enjoying a drink outside, when a small swarm came over and within a few minutes the disabled Step-Mum had bees burrowing into her hair.

I can't explain what's going on as I'm no expert, but the swarms don't appear to be the only problem.

 

[thorn]

A solicitor would probably recommend mediation as a first step. And some local authorities offer or used to offer a mediation service.

 

[cnb]

I suspect we are not hearing the whole story. Posting pictures of your neighbours garden on a public forum hardly seems reasonable behaviour and is only going to make the situation worse.

Apart from the open feeding, the setup is probably the same as hundreds of beekeepers in the UK. What would be a reasonable number of hives to you? This is a 'small corner of garden', but how big are the gardens?

What you are seeing is probably not swarms, but robbing bees or orientation flights.

Grow a big hedge.

Whilst trying to stay reasonable, I'd like to know what you surmise might be the whole story? The photo might have been a step too far, but I'm trying to learn what is normal beekeeping and what is not in an attempt to get to the bottom of the problem. Nobody knows who he is or where the photo was taken, so it's hard to see the problem with posting the photo.

As I've said, I'm no expert, and care not whether it's a swarm by definition. All I know is that about twice a week, my home and garden are subjected to overwhelming bee activity that cannot be endured during a time when me and my family love to be outside.

As for the comment about growing a big hedge, come on, that's not sensible is it? Spend hundreds on mature hedge plants because one selfish guy chooses to keep his bees in a way that clearly doesn't make them happy.

 

[cnb]

Quicker than a hedge would be mesh extending upwards, 1" mesh should do, they don't normally fly through that, though of course you could go smaller. Take it up to about 10 feet.

I have considered this. I planned a fence of green barrier mesh to about 15 feet. It's on my radar to do. I have the mesh, it's fine enough that the bees wouldn't fly through it, but wouldn't be difficult to erect.

Someone did say to me that once they go up, they are unlikely to come straight back down. You think it'll work?

 

[JamezF]

I think giving the mesh barrier a try would be a good start. It may help with the bees (which sound to me as though they're a bit on the defensive side -- perhaps understandable under the circumstances) coming into the garden directly. It may even help with the swarms by encouraging them to leave in a different direction. Either way, it's probably cheaper than any alternative and relatively painless to do.

His bees may well still visit your garden, but perhaps if they have to fly over or around the barrier to reach it they may not perceive you and yours as a threat.

James

 

[Mint Bee]

I suspect we are not hearing the whole story. Posting pictures of your neighbours garden on a public forum hardly seems reasonable behaviour and is only going to make the situation worse.

Apart from the open feeding, the setup is probably the same as hundreds of beekeepers in the UK. What would be a reasonable number of hives to you? This is a 'small corner of garden', but how big are the gardens?

What you are seeing is probably not swarms, but robbing bees or orientation flights.

Grow a big hedge.

Rubbish. Just because one may keep bees in a small garden, doesn't mean one should. If this was a neighbour of mine, I think I'd be well within my rights to be mightily pissed off in their actions restricting access to my garden . IMO defiantly fit with the guidance for anti social behavior. Maybe if a few more people had a bit more consideration for others the country wouldn't as F#$ as it currently is

 

[Mint Bee]

I have considered this. I planned a fence of green barrier mesh to about 15 feet. It's on my radar to do. I have the mesh, it's fine enough that the bees wouldn't fly through it, but wouldn't be difficult to erect.

Someone did say to me that once they go up, they are unlikely to come straight back down. You think it'll work?

it would work, but any sort of structure to 15' is likely to fall foul of council boundary guidance, if someone complains, IIRC

edited to amend inches to feet - spinal tap moment

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it would work, but any sort of structure to 15" is likely to fall foul of council boundary guidance, if someone complains, IIRC

a fifteen inch high fence wouldn't deter the bees at all

 

[Sutty]

I have considered this. I planned a fence of green barrier mesh to about 15 feet. It's on my radar to do. I have the mesh, it's fine enough that the bees wouldn't fly through it, but wouldn't be difficult to erect.

Someone did say to me that once they go up, they are unlikely to come straight back down. You think it'll work?

For bees flying about foraging yes it will work, once they are you to height they will just continue straight to their destination.

 

[cnb]

it would work, but any sort of structure to 15" is likely to fall foul of council boundary guidance, if someone complains, IIRC

In all honesty, I'd welcome the attention of the council, I have legitimate reason for doing so. Thanks for your support.

 

[warsaw_hive]

Nobody knows who he is or where the photo was taken, so it's hard to see the problem with posting the photo.

Should your neighbour read this forum then he will obviously recognise his own garden. What do think his reaction would be? Do you think he'll be pleased to see his garden being described as derelict, his beekeeping described as substandard? Obviously not. That you can't see this makes me grateful that you are not my neighbour.

Much of what you write doesn't ring true with me. 1 or 2 swarms every week over the summer? Unlikely, swarming usually ends mid July. Garden unusable for 1 to 2 hours. Again, unlikely, a swarm lasts probably 20 mins max. Far less disruptive than a bonfire.

Most beekeepers aim to minimise swarming since there is a financial cost to it. Now there are some beekeepers who don't do any swarm control (I am one of them), but these tend to be the eco warrior type. They wouldn't tend to use polystyrene hives (the small green ones in your photo).

The hives are not neglected. They are new (not cheap), have feeders on them, and the comb left on the top of the hives looks like it was built in the feeders (so obviously well fed).

There are 3 full size national hives in the photo, with a further one stored at the back on its side. The entrances have been reduced to a very small size, that doesn't fit with a hive that has swarmed 10 days ago.

If you are calling other beekeepers to collect swarms then what do they say? Surely they would have given you the same advice that you've received here? Do they report on the temperament of the swarms they collect? Are these 'angry' bees to them? Are they not getting fed up of collecting swarms if this is a regular occurrence?

I worry about the impact of my bees on my neighbours, but stinging or swarming are not my concerns. It is noise. 8 hives generate a lot of noise, yet you don't mention this at all. Last summer I went up to 10 hives in my garden. Standing in my neighbours garden apart from the noise you wouldn't know there are hives in my garden. Bees fly up and well over head height. Growing a hedge or planting trees is the most sensible advice you'll receive. In the big scheme of things is little monetary cost (a few tanks of petrol).

 

[JamezF]

You do no swarm control and don't concern yourself with any impact it has on your neighbours? Is it your garden in the photo?

James

 

[OldFarm]

There's not much the local BKA can do. They can talk to the beekeeper and offer advise, but the beekeeper doesn't have to listen to or take the advise. The only penalty they can dish out is terminating their membership. Like others have said, the local BKA won't be happy about the situation either, it gives beekeeping a bad name and this behaviour is a disease risk.

I would contact the local BKA, explain the situation and ask them to talk to the beekeeper. I would also be asking a local beekeeper to put bait hives in the garden. Definitely don't tell the neighbour if a swarm is caught, just have it quietly removed and another bait hive set up.

The beekeeper may not be a member of an association, they may or may not have any insurance. I would be concerned about bees taking up residence in the surrounding houses, so recording all swarm activity would be helpful should the need to make a nuisance claim arise. The law is generally very lenient towards beekeepers it seems, but in the age of cameras on mobile phones, bad beekeepers might well get caught out.

Contact the local bee inspector, the local BKA should be able to give you the contact details. Not sure what they can do apart from inspect and deal with disease, but worth a try.

 

[PeaBee]

Not sure the Bee inspector would be remotely interested and does not have the statutory framework (they deal with be health and the legislation around that not neighbour disputes), likewise what is the local BKA going to do? If it is a genuine nuisance (in the legal sense i.e "unreasonably and substantially interfere with the use or enjoyment of a home or other premises, or injure health or be likely to injure health") it is your district council Environmental Health team that have the powers to deal with it under Environmental Protection Act 1990, Section 79, ultimately if they judge it to be a nuisance they can serve an abetment notice and the bees would have to go or your neighbour install mitigation to remove the nuisance..

 

[thorn]

Should your neighbour read this forum then he will obviously recognise his own garden. What do think his reaction would be? Do you think he'll be pleased to see his garden being described as derelict, his beekeeping described as substandard? Obviously not. That you can't see this makes me grateful that you are not my neighbour.

Much of what you write doesn't ring true with me. 1 or 2 swarms every week over the summer? Unlikely, swarming usually ends mid July. Garden unusable for 1 to 2 hours. Again, unlikely, a swarm lasts probably 20 mins max. Far less disruptive than a bonfire.

Most beekeepers aim to minimise swarming since there is a financial cost to it. Now there are some beekeepers who don't do any swarm control (I am one of them), but these tend to be the eco warrior type. They wouldn't tend to use polystyrene hives (the small green ones in your photo).

The hives are not neglected. They are new (not cheap), have feeders on them, and the comb left on the top of the hives looks like it was built in the feeders (so obviously well fed).

There are 3 full size national hives in the photo, with a further one stored at the back on its side. The entrances have been reduced to a very small size, that doesn't fit with a hive that has swarmed 10 days ago.

If you are calling other beekeepers to collect swarms then what do they say? Surely they would have given you the same advice that you've received here? Do they report on the temperament of the swarms they collect? Are these 'angry' bees to them? Are they not getting fed up of collecting swarms if this is a regular occurrence?

I worry about the impact of my bees on my neighbours, but stinging or swarming are not my concerns. It is noise. 8 hives generate a lot of noise, yet you don't mention this at all. Last summer I went up to 10 hives in my garden. Standing in my neighbours garden apart from the noise you wouldn't know there are hives in my garden. Bees fly up and well over head height. Growing a hedge or planting trees is the most sensible advice you'll receive. In the big scheme of things is little monetary cost (a few tanks of petrol).

You seem rather dismissive of or blind to the problems that someone living next to a beekeeper can face if that beekeeper doesn't give a damn. And I say that as someone who has three hives in his garden. The OP has a right to quiet enjoyment of his garden

 

[Sutty]

I did in the first post. They come over in a cloud, pretty much at ground level, the pathway to my home often becomes completely impassable. They do eventually settle somewhere, but in the hour or two after they leave the hive, it's terrifying to everyone (keep in mind we're not bee-keepers).

Most of the stinging I've been subjected to doesn't occur during a swarm, but there are almost always a lot of bees in the air and every so often and angry one arrives that goes on an absolute stinging mission.

On one occasion last Summer we had my Wifes Dad and Step-Mum over, she's disabled. We were enjoying a drink outside, when a small swarm came over and within a few minutes the disabled Step-Mum had bees burrowing into her hair.

I can't explain what's going on as I'm no expert, but the swarms don't appear to be the only problem.

When they settle can you describe what you see once they've quietened down. Just to confirm it is a swarm you are describing.
I'd get pictures as evidence at every possible opportunity.