Help wanted with trap out in the Oldham Area...

[Sean]

It's a busy time for beekeepers - both hobbyist, semi-professional and bee farmers. It's been an exceptional month - after a slow spring the forage and weather have come together and our bees are filling the supers with honey like there's no tomorrow. If everyone is like me .. filling most of my spare hours keeping an eye on the bees so they have enough space that they won't swarm, scratching around for more supers and frames to put on the hives, making up more frames (even though I thought I would have enough). Keeping the picking going and freezing of my garden produce, cutting grass and pulling up weeds and working for a living. Association officials who are volunteers who do all this and take on the added responsibilities and tasks involved in keeping their associations going (a pretty thankless job at times). It's never ending ....

Be patient - we beekeepers are a fairly generous lot. Something will come along ...

Thank you. I will keep trying. I think the biggest challenge is convincing someone that I’m up to the challenge and a worthy investment.

Either that or the beekeepers in my area have become Africanised because not all their temperaments are like those of the members coming forward with advice on here

 

[pargyle]

Thank you. I will keep trying. I think the biggest challenge is convincing someone that I’m up to the challenge and a worthy investment.

Either that or the beekeepers in my area have become Africanised because not all their temperaments are like those of the members coming forward with advice on here

Afrikanised beekeepers in the UK are fairly rare fortunately, some are bigotted, argumentative, single minded and at times judgemental - but they usually will always offer some unconditional help if they can. Good luck.

 

[Mint Bee]

The association website doesn't look like its had much attention in a while.
There are a few local swarm collectors near to you listed in the map in link below who might worth speaking to. There's also some information on bee removal from buildings

https://www.bbka.org.uk/Pages/Category/swarm-removal

 

[Sean]

After a day of calls and emails, some progress! I may have found someone local that is happy to help with the broody frames! And a nearby BKA that is asking around as a back up. Watch this space.

Another question: Is introducing another queen to the nuc going to change the chances of their survival post extraction? If I'm in it for a penny, I'm in for a pound, but the easiest way to acquire a queen seems to be via online website and so I've got limited time if that's the way to go (assuming I do get the frames ofc).

*edit

Q2: Could someone give me some more advice about the actual mechanics of attaching the nuc box to the wall? Are we talking 40mm waste pipe? Going from the nuc < valve < pipe < wall. I don't have the nuc box yet so it's hard to visualise.

Thanks

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I'm hoping someone can help. We've had honeybees take up residence in the stone wall of our house. It's been about 3 days since I noticed them. Not seen a swarm, but they've definitely fully moved in. They've found two holes about a meter apart (started with one and initially I tried to block it and then quickly studied up and unblocked it) and I assume they are in a cavity behind the stone. About 10ft above the ground. I've had a crash course in honeybees and extraction processes. It looks like a relatively small colony that has not been here long. The problem we have is that it is a grade-listed building with a 100-year-old contract between neighbors, and we can't remove stones without everyone's approval. which we do not have, and even if we did have, the reality is we could likely not afford the repair work right now due to a series of unfortunate financial events (loss of income etc.)

I've checked with house insurance (not covered) and called every registered beekeeper within a 10 mile radius on the BKA website but they all have pretty much the same answer - that a cut out is the only option. I've spoken to a few people on the bee removers database and the amounts of money being discussed are simply not an option for us right now. Which leaves us between a rock and hard place (much live our new beehive!). I'm aware that leaving the honeycomb in situ is a big nono, as it will attract other bees and pests, but that's a risk I'd be willing to take under the circumstances. It really feels like there should be a charity for this kind of work. I appreciate it's highly specialized and requires surveys, equipment, and a few different skill sets, but the country is better off when these little guys are safely rehomed. I just don't have money lying around for an ad hoc excavation on the side of my house (and yes, I've learnt my lesson - there will be no holes for them to find once this ordeal is over)!

I'm growing increasingly desperate and hoping someone can help before I do something silly that is highly unlikely to work, probably involving a shop vac and a few shots of vodka (for me, not them). Any advice much appreciated.

After a day of calls and emails, some progress! I may have found someone local that is happy to help with the broody frames! And a nearby BKA that is asking around as a back up. Watch this space.

Another question: Is introducing another queen to the nuc going to change the chances of their survival post extraction? If I'm in it for a penny, I'm in for a pound, but the easiest way to acquire a queen seems to be via online website and so I've got limited time if that's the way to go (assuming I do get the frames ofc).

*edit

Q2: Could someone give me some more advice about the actual mechanics of attaching the nuc box to the wall? Are we talking 40mm waste pipe? Going from the nuc < valve < pipe < wall. I don't have the nuc box yet so it's hard to visualise.

Thanks

Honestly I'd try a mini-scaffold tower to support the box. Also another thought regarding persuading bees to come out of the cavity would be to use a thin hollow probe to introduce a squirt of "Bee-Quick" into the deepest part of the cavity añd around the second entrance. I've used it for the first time last month to clear supers. A small amount sprayed onto a cloth and draped over the frames led to the bees retreating down into lower boxes away from the cloth within 5 minutes. Lester from Beverley BKA (sadly now gone to the great apiary in the sky) told me about it as I had bought a box of assorted bits at an auction and among the stuff in the box was a still sealed bottle. It was on the shelf ever since and I thought it was time to try it out. I've got to say it exceeded my expectations.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Honestly I'd try a mini-scaffold tower to support the box. Also another thought regarding persuading bees to come out of the cavity would be to use a thin hollow probe to introduce a squirt of "Bee-Quick" into the deepest part of the cavity añd around the second entrance. I've used it for the first time last month to clear supers. A small amount sprayed onto a cloth and draped over the frames led to the bees retreating down into lower boxes away from the cloth within 5 minutes. Lester from Beverley BKA (sadly now gone to the great apiary in the sky) told me about it as I had bought a box of assorted bits at an auction and among the stuff in the box was a still sealed bottle. It was on the shelf ever since and I thought it was time to try it out. I've got to say it exceeded my expectations.

 

[Sean]

Further update: I'm going to collect my drawn frames and brood tomorrow morning from a lovely lady. No turning back now!

 

[ericbeaumont]

introduce a squirt of "Bee-Quick"

May work in a controlled space like a hive where the bees have only one directional option, but the building construction as described by Sean is likely to be variable, and BQ may drive the bees deeper.

Used it once and the tree trunk bees ran around like mad things, into every corner but not in the direction we wanted. It did knock the beekeepers sideways, and so we gave up on it.

 

[Sean]

May work in a controlled space like a hive where the bees have only one directional option, but the building construction as described by Sean is likely to be variable, and BQ may drive the bees deeper.

Used it once and the tree trunk bees ran around like mad things, into every corner but not in the direction we wanted. It did knock the beekeepers sideways, and so we gave up on it.

Would you mind giving your input on a few of my practical questions - namely, queen or no queen? And I going to be able to do this with 40mm waste pipe or will I need something bigger/smaller? I'm also thinking I'll need some sort of rose on the end of the pipe and perhaps some fast drying non toxic sealant or something because the surface of the wall is, well, a 300 old stone wall.

I'm also wondering about my newly acquired brood. Everyone says it doesn't travel well and needs to be looked after. How much time do I have from acquiring my frames to be 100% in situ?

Also, would you mind if I DM you for some real-time support over the next couple of days? I want to document this publicly for future folks to read, but I also feel like things will move quite quickly over the next day or two.

 

[pargyle]

After a day of calls and emails, some progress! I may have found someone local that is happy to help with the broody frames! And a nearby BKA that is asking around as a back up. Watch this space.

Another question: Is introducing another queen to the nuc going to change the chances of their survival post extraction? If I'm in it for a penny, I'm in for a pound, but the easiest way to acquire a queen seems to be via online website and so I've got limited time if that's the way to go (assuming I do get the frames ofc).

*edit

Q2: Could someone give me some more advice about the actual mechanics of attaching the nuc box to the wall? Are we talking 40mm waste pipe? Going from the nuc < valve < pipe < wall. I don't have the nuc box yet so it's hard to visualise.

Thanks

If you buy in a queen you have a time frame ... if you can beg some drawn frames then the best time to introduce the queen into the Nuc is going to be when you have the trap out nuc installed and bees are taking up residence ... but there's a risk. Bees will not, generally, accept having two queens in the same colony - and the risk is that they kill her. If the queen in the cavity and the bought in queen come together then they will fight and one of them will be killed. To be safe I would suggest you would be safer to introduce a new queen in a push in queen cage. These are easily made and will protect the queen until her pheremones become the dominant ones in the hive. (I know, it's getting more involved but you don't want to waste buying in a queen and then have her killed).



If you are buying in a queen I would not use Bee quick - just let the trap out work at its own pace.

There are two ways of doing a trap out with a nuc box, they both need to have the box located alongside the hole that the bees are using as an entrance to their home in the cavity - how you do that ? As it is 10 feet up the wall you probably need a couple of brackets and a shelf attached to the wall in the vicinity of the holes.

Method 1 - You make a cone of wire mesh and attach it as a 'one way' exit over the hole they are using with the end of the cone close to the entrance of the Nuc with the brood frames in it. The bees find their way out of the cavity, find they can't get back in and take up residence in the new Des Res you have located next to the cone. If there is a queen in a cage they (hopefully) decide that's as good a place to live as they can't return to the cavity.

Method 2 - You cut a hole in the back of the Nuc box and attach that to a pipe (doesn't need to be a big pipe - 1" diameter is fine) connected to the hole in the wall, the bees then leave the cavity and have to pass through the Nuc box to get out - when they return they take up residence in the Nuc rather than returning to the cavity. Again, if there is brood in the Nuc box and a caged queen there is more likelihood of them staying in the brood box .. if you want to complicate it a bit further you can restrict the end of the pipe where is enters the Nuc box with a small cone of mesh which will confuse and prevent them trying to get back to the cavity.

May work in a controlled space like a hive where the bees have only one directional option, but the building construction as described by Sean is likely to be variable, and BQ may drive the bees deeper.

Used it once and the tree trunk bees ran around like mad things, into every corner but not in the direction we wanted. It did knock the beekeepers sideways, and so we gave up on it.

i agree ...

So ... you are on your way ... beekeeping is always about making decisions and here you have your first one ... great that you have found someone, just need to get on with the DIY bits now and get cracking.

 

[ericbeaumont]

drawn frames and brood tomorrow

When you do collect, wrap the brood frame in a damp tea-towel until you're ready to put it in the box. Delay collection until the trap is assembled and ready to roll.

mechanics of attaching the nuc box to the wall

Make a frame out of 1"x2" timber with a diagonal here and there: leave the back verticals long and screw it to the wall. Position it so that the pipe flows easily into the box.

40mm waste pipe

Your wall & nest entrance may allow a much shorter section of pipe, even waste pipe, almost directly into the box, but that depends on the wall surface, size of nest entrance and your ingenuity. Obviously, the 40mm pipe must not go through the box wall completely, and will have to be fixed with a pipe connector & Gorilla glue.

If distance is necessary, the pipe must be flexible to allow for variables. Washing machine waste pipe is ribbed, so allows bees to get a grip. About £4 from a spares shop.

The end is tapered slightly; drill an undersize hole in the box back or side, whichever gives good access from pipe to nest entrance, and screw it in. Glue it if you wish.

The pipe must be fixed solidly at both ends, so conjure a means to do that. I think that I cut and flared the wall end pipe and sandwiched it between two pieces of timber with a hole in it. The timber sandwich was screwed to the wall over the nest entrance, and I packed the back of the rim with pipe insulation or rubber, to accommodate the variable wall surface.

When you fit the red cone on the inner box wall it is likely to interfere with an end frame, so cut out a chunk of that frame & comb. The cone is fiddly to attach to the poly, but Gorilla glue may work.

You will need a beesuit and a bit of smoking egg box, to wave about when you seal the wall hole and bees fly about. Don't use leather gloves; marigolds are fine.

Reminder: delay collection of the brood frame until this is all set up and ready to roll.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Just saw the other link to the one way valves. That looks much more straightforward that what I was seeing on YouTube!

This is a trap out I am doing at present. I put some open brood in box after an hour or so of setting it up and the cloud of bees that had accumulated around the box disappeared in very quickly.

 

[pargyle]

This is a trap out I am doing at present. I put some open brood in box after an hour or so of setting it up and the cloud of bees that had accumulated around the box disappeared in very quickly.

Where else in the beekeeping world would you get such excellent and comprehensive advice on such an esoteric aspect of beekeeping ?... Next time someone complains that this forum is an unfriendly and unwelcoming place remind me to direct them to this thread .... it will be a sticky when it has run its course.

 

[Sean]

Sadly, I can't delay collection of the brood frame as the donator is heading on holiday tomorrow. I'll push it as late in the day as I can. The box is arriving tomorrow so that's also another unknown. But what I lack in bee experience, I make up for in DIY expereince. Knocking a frame together and getting it set up sounds like a pretty straightforward process. So the question becomes, how best to look after it for a few hours?

No distance is necessary between box and wall. I can have it virtually against the entrance. I plan to have it directly adjacent so I can work quickly if the hole presents issues.

Seems like there are essentially two methods: cone > air gap > outside world (some free will) or pipe > cone > box > outside world (you WILL climb through the box). In my head I was going for option 2 based on @ericbeaumont s initial post.

Just to be clear, it doesn't matter where in the box the cut entrance is? This is the one I've bought... is that not a pre-created hole I can use?

 

[Sean]

Where else in the beekeeping world would you get such excellent and comprehensive advice on such an esoteric aspect of beekeeping ?... Next time someone complains that this forum is an unfriendly and unwelcoming place remind me to direct them to this thread .... it will be a sticky when it has run its course.

Agreed. I'm becoming a member for sure. The number of places I've come to cap in hand looking for help only to be ridiculed is mind-numbing (although I've been asking dumb question since the usenet days). This is a breath of fresh air!

 

[pargyle]

Sadly, I can't delay collection of the brood frame as the donator is heading on holiday tomorrow. I'll push it as late in the day as I can. The box is arriving tomorrow so that's also another unknown. But what I lack in bee experience, I make up for in DIY expereince. Knocking a frame together and getting it set up sounds like a pretty straightforward process. So the question becomes, how best to look after in for a few hours?

No distance is necessary between box and wall. I can have it virtually against the entrance. I plan to have it directly adjacent so I can work quickly if the hole presents issues.

Seems like there are essentially two methods: cone > air gap > outside world (some free will) or pipe > cone > box > outside world (you WILL climb through the box). In my head I was going for option 2 based on @ericbeaumont s initial post.

Just to be clear, it doesn't matter where in the box the cut entrance is. This is the one I've bought... is that not a pre-created hole I can use?

1. Just keep the brood frames warm .. the inside of a beehive they keep at around 35 degrees in the brood area so you need to keep the frame around that sort of temperature. Keep it wrapped in a towel.

2. You don't need to cut a second hole in the nuc box unless you are doing the method where the bees have to pass through the hive to get out - they go in via the tube and through the hole you cut and then out through the entrance already in the nuc box.

 

[Sean]

1. Just keep the brood frames warm .. the inside of a beehive they keep at around 35 degrees in the brood area so you need to keep the frame around that sort of temperature. Keep it wrapped in a towel.

2. You don't need to cut a second hole in the nuc box unless you are doing the method where the bees have to pass through the hive to get out - they go in via the tube and through the hole you cut and then out through the entrance already in the nuc box.

And if going for the second option, is there an ideal distance between the two holes? i.e. one in the bottom on one side, one in the top on the other? Do I want them to be forced to explore their new home or simply pass from one side to the other?

I appreciate how basic these questions are

 

[pargyle]

And if going for the second option, is there an ideal distance between the two holes? i.e. one in the bottom on one side, one in the top on the other? Do I want them to be forced to explore their new home or simply pass from one side to the other?

I appreciate how basic these questions are

IF you are going for the 'pass through' option one hole at the back or at the side as far away from the existing entrance to the Nuc as you can get it. They will pass through rather than hang around inside but it's when they return you don't want to make it too easy for them to find their way back to the cavity and encourage them to stay in the nuc box.

No such thing as a basic question - just one you need an answer to ! Off to bed now ... good luck tomorrow ...

 

[ericbeaumont]

ideal distance between the two holes

If piped into the box, the red cone must be fixed in line with the pipe entering from the outside. In other words, you will make only one hole.

Just occurred to me that the nuc box will have an entrance at either end. You could adapt one for the pipe and allow bees to fly from the other.

forced to explore their new home or simply pass from one side to the other?

They will explore anyway, and work it out.

 

[Sean]

If piped into the box, the red cone must be fixed in line with the pipe entering from the outside. In other words, you will make only one hole.

Just occurred to me that the nuc box will have an entrance at either end. You could adapt one for the pipe and allow bees to fly from the other.


They will explore anyway, and work it out.

Nearly ready to go guys. One question- does it matter where in the order of frames the brood goes or can I just whack them in?