Some help on what has happened here

[Erichalfbee]

Edit:* they abscond in dribs and drabs rather than the more usual absconding on mass associated with the word when used in reference to bees.

Of course you’re right. I always used that as an excuse for colonies needing multiple vapes.
Are these “healthy” bees carriers of DWV if not actually carrying mites?

 

[Erichalfbee]

But I don't recall you/him saying that it triggered a sudden colony collapse?

That’s because I didn’t.

 

[mbc]

Of course you’re right. I always used that as an excuse for colonies needing multiple vapes.
Are these “healthy” bees carriers of DWV if not actually carrying mites?

I'm not sure about individuals, its bound to transfer with successive waves of absconding bees, but the chances are the receiving colony already has endemic dwv anyway, its probably more about tipping points at the colony level.

 

[madasafish]

When they die like that from varroa, are there any dead bees to be seen? In this case you saw recently with varroa, (with a double brood hive heaving with bees in August, and then dead in September), do you see carpets of dead bees on the floors and at the front?

Hardly any. I assume many died in flight,

 

[CaptainCymru]

There's a few 'early years lessons' you have learnt here ... Don't beat yourself up about it, it's disheartening and costly but what you have to do now is learn the lessons, make a note for the future and move on - fresh start next year:

1. There is nothing wrong with either OA by sublimation or the Gas Vap (if you can get on with it) - the key is to do three treatments at 5 day intervals - that gets you the optimum time between brood cycles and the lifecycle of the mites and achieves the maximum kill rate.

2. You don't have inspection boards (which are notoriously inaccurate for measuring infestation) - start doing Sugar rolls - regularly - it does not hurt the bees. Invest £15 in an Abelo 3 in 1 tester which makes it very easy (video for it's use here)

3. Even if you buy in a new colony ..check them for varroa - if it's a swarm check them for varroa. You can treat with OA by sublimation as many times as you like at any time of the yeat (it's not legal but it's very effective). It does not harm the bees,

4. The time to treat is after you take your honey crop and when they are building up for winter - but - if you check regularly it will tell you if you have one of those colonies that seem to be prone to infestation and if the mite levels are getting out of hand ... treat.

5. Splitting colonies .. it's tempting but a nuc will develop into a strong colony to take into winter and may give you a crop - splitting colonies reduces their ability to develop and regardless of what it looks like in bee numbers a Nuc is rarely a candidate to split in the same season. Let it develop to a full colony and you could take a couple of frames off it and buy in a mated queen late in the season and then take a nuc through winter.

6. Varroa is a scourge on UK Beekeeping - the mites, once established, mutliply at an extraordinary rate and you have to know what is going on - they will kill a colony in no time at all as they effectively reduce the bees ability to rear sufficient bees to survive and thrive - look at your original photos - all those cells with a hole in them are failed brood - if the colony was strong enough they would be clearing those cells out - they were clearly heavily overloaded.

7. Too much space is as bad in beekeeping as too little, managing the space is key in beekeeping - too little and they will swarm, too much and they will find it harder to maintain the hive at the temperature they want. If you move a nuc into a full hive - dummy it down and just give them an extra frame or two as they need it. They will draw the frames out quicker.

8. NOW ... you have brood frames that are a very valuable commodity - WAX MOTH ? What are you doing to make sure they don't get destroyed by this other pest ?

Thank you for the detailed reply and recommendations . So to address point 8 , I have crush and strained the honey available from the frames , cut the dead brood out of others and now placed all the boxes together outside , sealed and strapped them and also treated with sulphur strips in a burner . I will probably repeat on a monthly basis to ensure they are good for the new season . Hopefully the honey left will give the new colonies a boost .

 

[Karol]

In emerging bees?

Trophallaxis.

 

[Karol]

I was at the NHS and there was a piece about how glyphosate affects bees despite “common knowledge” that it doesn’t

Assuming it was glyphosphate and not the new Roundup formula.

 

[pargyle]

Thank you for the detailed reply and recommendations . So to address point 8 , I have crush and strained the honey available from the frames , cut the dead brood out of others and now placed all the boxes together outside , sealed and strapped them and also treated with sulphur strips in a burner . I will probably repeat on a monthly basis to ensure they are good for the new season . Hopefully the honey left will give the new colonies a boost .

Good ... well done. You are probably overkilling it doing a sulphur burn monthly - if they are well strapped up and sealed then there will be no way the wax moth can get at them and a sulphur burn will kill any moths, larvae and eggs .. a couple of burns three weeks apart should render then safe. I do one but I also treat my frames with Dipel - but with just a couple of boxes it's not worth investing in Dipel as it comes uin 500gm tubs and it's not cheap.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Assuming it was glyphosphate and not the new Roundup formula.

Can’t recall. It was a mention at the end of a talk by Martin Giurfa: “From learning, memory and neurons: a journey to the cognitive world of honey bees”

 

[pargyle]

Can’t recall. It was a mention at the end of a talk by Martin Giurfa: “From learning, memory and neurons: a journey to the cognitive world of honey bees”

i thought he said Glyphosphate.... I don't think he said Roundup - is there a new formulation for Roundup then ?

 

[E&MBees]

i thought he said Glyphosphate.... I don't think he said Roundup - is there a new formulation for Roundup then ?

The company have brought out a glyphosphate free version.

 

[Newbeeneil]

i thought he said Glyphosphate.... I don't think he said Roundup - is there a new formulation for Roundup then ?

It was glyphosphate he mentioned. Concentrations as low as 1ppb caused an effect on cognition.

 

[ericbeaumont]

We ought to call it by its correct name: glyphosate, without the extra ph.

 

[Erichalfbee]

We ought to call it by its correct name: glyphosate, without the extra ph.

Phew.....I thought it was me.
Nevertheless


Beginning in 2024, many Roundup-branded herbicides available to consumers will no longer contain glyphosate at all. This active ingredient is being replaced by a combination of multiple active ingredients (e.g., diquat, fluazifop, and triclopyr) in select products.

Anybody know about these?

 

[Karol]

We ought to call it by its correct name: glyphosate, without the extra ph.

See, I said Roundup doesn't contain glyphosphate and it doesn't!

My bad - too many long hours and too many hours working with phosphate salts and working on autopilot in free time.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Morning folks

Just had a quick nose at my hives after securing for the winter and they have been wiped out. I treated for Varroa in late September using oxalic acid in the gas vap, 3 treatments 7 days apart. Checked for stores and placed fondant on crown board. One of my hives is totally empty and the other has one frame of bees and a queen . Both hives have lots of honey . They were on double brood national . My thoughts are that they became honeybound with a late flow and swarmed into nothing however I have a brood pattern I would like you to look at . I have ordered a AFB and EFB kit to make sure . Is honey safe to eat from EFB and AFB ? I understand I have to burn the frames and scorch the boxes if it is . Some help would be good .

I'm coming late to this party and others are already exploring the various options and inferences but why did you vape 7 days apart? Is someone spreading misinformation about vape treatment of colonies? Perhaps we, as beekeepers, need to educate newbies better.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Phew.....I thought it was me.
Nevertheless


Beginning in 2024, many Roundup-branded herbicides available to consumers will no longer contain glyphosate at all. This active ingredient is being replaced by a combination of multiple active ingredients (e.g., diquat, fluazifop, and triclopyr) in select products.

Anybody know about these?

Preglone Extra, a total weedkiller, was a blend of Diquat and Paraquat. It was blamed as responsible for irreversible poisoning back in the 1970s. Despite containers being clearly labeled DO NOT TRANSFER FROM ORIGINAL CONTAINER idiots would put some in an empty pop bottle to take home for their own garden. It was sometimes mistaken for a Dandelion & Burdock soft drink with fatal results. With the apparent decline in common sense among the general public nowadays I fear we could see a return to those days

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Darwinian theory in motion - weed out the worst of the simpletons

 

[Karol]

Preglone Extra, a total weedkiller, was a blend of Diquat and Paraquat. It was blamed as responsible for irreversible poisoning back in the 1970s. Despite containers being clearly labeled DO NOT TRANSFER FROM ORIGINAL CONTAINER idiots would put some in an empty pop bottle to take home for their own garden. It was sometimes mistaken for a Dandelion & Burdock soft drink with fatal results. With the apparent decline in common sense among the general public nowadays I fear we could see a return to those days

I remember a paraquat poisoning case on one of my ward rounds. Poor chap did precisely that. Took it into his mouth mistaking it for cola (hadn't even removed the cola label) and spat it out without swallowing and rinsed his mouth out immediately but we still could not save him. From memory, and this is going back to 1987, it took over a week for him to finally succumb.

 

[Karol]

Darwinian theory in motion - weed out the worst of the simpletons

Problem is not the simpletons. It's the kiddies who unwittingly drink the stuff not knowing otherwise.