To treat or not for varroa

[Poly Hive]

Rubbish.

And that is playing the topic not the man.

PH

 

[Brosville]

So we shouldn't ever question the "gospel according to Langstroth", query the use of miticides or the wisdom of unnecessary intrusive inspections or suppression of swarming, or whether perhaps we should re-evaluate the value of drones?

 

[Chris Luck]

Because it doesn't work that way Poly.

No one is selling local bee queens on a commercial basis here - why would they? You clearly have no idea how things work in "France profonde".

All the big suppliers of Queens here are selling the same old stuff as the UK, principally Italians and Buckfasts at silly prices - goodness knows who to - Brits perhaps or anyone else that is willing to play that game. From what I see that's usually younger "new" keepers and these bees die without treatment.

On the other hand, local bees that are allowed to behave in a more or less normal manner survive with the mite with all the old keepers I know letting there bees swarm, collecting swarms and basically doing what they have always done - keep bees. If they read this they would think the world had gone crazy. I know keepers with 2000 plus hives that operate like this so it's not the odd isolated instance.

All of this as you know is backed up with good solid control study evidence from INRA over 15 years. The bees aren't "breed", they are simply the hybrids that survive and it may well be that if they were put in the hands of someone like you they wouldn't last very long either.

Chris

 

[cjhart2]

Free drone rearing with natural combs makes a serious hole into honey yield.

.

Says an awful lot about the Honey industry .

 

[mbc]

The same doubts as I have expressed clearly enough in the post.

If you dinna have it you canna say you are clear due to the bees. Finman said it precisely. Where is the rush to buy French varroa free queens? Or if it has to be spelled out in basics where is the demand for the queens to head varroa free colonies? The queue at the vendors doors would be a wonder to behold and where is it?

I have ma doots.

Good luck to the bees for being lucky enough to live in a part of the world where there appears to be a free zone. But I strongly suspect that is all it is not some magical reason.

PH

Why on earth would you believe there are large areas of France free from varroa ?
Its not something I've heard of.

EDIT; sorry PH, I've just read back through the thread and seen the "interesting book" bit. Do you have the title ?

 

[cjhart2]

Why on earth would you believe there are large areas of France free from varroa ?
Its not something I've heard of.

I'm not so convinced as "cjhart2" that they don't have varroa present. Logically they must have but it may be at low levels - I don't know because I never check - why should I? I would assume that they simply tolerate the mite. What is for certain is that feral bees and other untreated colonies do survive here for years and years, again verified cases of up to 17 years continuous occupation and this can't be disputed by anyone with a functioning brain.

Chris

All I am saying , my bees do not have varroa at present and they come from a beekeeper those level of varroa is at a low level and the bees tolerate it .

So why should I treat the bees if the varroa is either not there ( unlike Chris i have checked ) or in Chris's case are tolerating it ?

Varroa is present in France but the feral / "mongrel" bees that i have come across are tolerating it . The BIG question is why ?

 

[Chris Luck]

I didn't even bother to pick up on this American piece of knowledge mbc as this interesting fact isn't known about or recognised in France.

Again OPIE and INRA say varroa is everywhere in France - no black holes or 4th dimensions.

I should add once again that the region I am in is the most important honey producing region of France, all my apiaries have three or more other keepers with hives within a 3km radius plus feral colonies.

In this region you are never far from hives where ever you go so there can be no isolation.

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

Can we drop the blinkers please?

If these bees are self treating and so varroa free why is the world not beating a path to the local doors?

Not sure where the drones business comes from regarding this.

PH

 

[Brosville]

I find the comment about "blinkers" more than a touch ironic - as for "Not sure where the drones business comes from regarding this" - drone brood culling is practised by many in an attempt to deal with varroa, and drones are often regarded as a waste of space - the reasonable suggestion has been made that it may well be counter-productive (as may be the use of miticides, regular intrusive inspections, and the suppression of normal swarming activity).

Chris' bees manage to live very well without these bits of "accepted practice", therefore it is wise and reasonable to question the wisdom of those practices, and to experiment along the lines of amending or dropping things which visibly don't do the job..........

 

[Chris Luck]

Can we drop the blinkers please?

No ones stopping you, so please do but be careful not to get blinded by the light.

If these bees are self treating and so varroa free why is the world not beating a path to the local doors?

Because they wouldn't get anywhere even if they could speak French, normal keepers round here, (Poitou-Charentes), don't want to sell either bees or queens, certainly not to foreigners.

As I said you haven't got a clue about France profonde, all you would get is at best a shrug, perhaps a "maybe" just to get rid of you, don't call me I'll call you type of thing or even possibly they would just turn their back and walk away.

Chris

 

[cjhart2]

Can we drop the blinkers please?



PH

Not wearing any . But i have got a good idea where i can borrow a pair .

 

[Poly Hive]

So how about you sell me two to trial next year?

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Oh yes we did but it was kept very quiet as I've mentioned before.

- I know - my wife was working on the F&M contingency planning team (as well as the avian fly and swine fever contingencies) during her time with animal by-product disposal (another knock-on from foot and mouth carcass disposal and BSE) she and her colleagues had quite a bit of consultation with their French colleagues - quite a few eye openers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So how about you sell me two to trial next year?

PH

Now that would be interesting, and all for the good of the bees in general

 

[Poly Hive]

Precisely my logic.

PH

 

[Chris Luck]

Can't get your head round it can you Poly?

The world really is quite a complex place, different people managing perfectly well doing different things and in this region exporting vast quantities of honey.

Old guy I know has just brought in 21 tons, all local bees and without playing with them, doesn't bear thinking about does it?

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

Nothing wrong with my ability to understand.

I note though that the issue of two queens is being avoided.

PH

 

[Chris Luck]

I note though that the issue of two queens is being avoided.

That will be Elizabeth the first and Mary? I thought this was about bees.

Chris

 

[Brosville]

PH - I really don't think you're quite grasping it, it's not just about queens, it's about leaving the poor bloody bees alone as far as possible - letting them swarm, produce as many drones as they like, not subjecting them to regular intrusive inspections or treating with miticides........

My view is that if you took a couple of Chris' queens and treated them to your usual regime the colonies would succumb just as they do now.......

 

[Poly Hive]

Its there in plain English. Post# 92

Have you come and seen my "regime"? Until you have it might be an idea not to assume?



PH