The truth behind fondants

[Erichalfbee]

I did the same.

Which is why it didn't go hard

 

[Goran]

Our fondants.. have no any oil but remain elastic all the time, made with inverted sugar syrup, some of our own fresh honey ( not advisable to ones who fear of diseases) and lot of grinded sugar, for winter usage we add Nozevit. In August I used them and they still were elastic and bees eat them all.. We found to make each around 1,5kg just right measure for us, seal each separately. Cardboard boxes for the oranges is right measure for filling with such fondants ( I found somewhere with that width but half a depth, and stack them high)

 

[Chris Hall]

A typo it was the WHO that has reduced the levels of HMF permitted.

Far from a sales pitch I asked several companies that produce bakers fondant and bee feeds to comment specifically HMF in there products, only one came back with a detailed response and I posted that, they make bot bakers fondant and a product designed for bees. The first has high levels of HMF a proven toxin.

The only other company to respond was a UK company whose product I see being sold as bee feed that is labelled bakers fondant, they said they do not measure HMF as the don’t need to for bakers fondant.

No one is suggesting bakers fondant is solely responsible for killing large numbers of bees, it is probably a contributory factor based on even the notes you have quoted you must admit there is concerns.

Did I see you saying you supply fondant?

 

[pargyle]

Did I see you saying you supply fondant?

Patrick owns Bee Equipment Limited ...one of the Forum Sponsors.

 

[Into the lions den]

The price difference between bakers fondant and api-fondants for mere mortals buying from main suppliers is huge. A strong right arm decent knife a roll of cling film and a few minutes is all that’s required. Even most bee farmers I know wouldn’t sniff at saving a few hundred £ in the middle of winter!

Its significant.

Approx £4 difference in the best prices I could get between block and prepack.

Bako fondant is very soft and very easy to cut....2 guys did a tonne in 45 mins. Cut into quarters and bagged...using heavy meat cutting knives...like machetes but with a heavy tip weighted blade.

Sudzucker product we prefer (the Bako is a tad too soft esp in summer) we cut using spades kept in hot water. 2 guys do a tonne in under the hour.

It is different guys doing it now and they are faster than the last set so the costs differ from previous postings on this.

Costs over the 80 boxes.........labour and bags etc..all cost included.....about £40/t for the work

Against £4.00 per box on cost equating to £320 per tonne.

Have had offers to supply this product prepack at a competitive rate but not been able to make the deal stick yet...*would take it for sheer convenience*...but the prepacks are so small, the 2,5kg are often out of stock and the amateur preferred 1kg packs are a real faff...you are never away from checking them as they get through it so fast.

I appreciate that there might be some degree of resentment (see and earlier response to another poster) about the people with purchasing power showing off about the rates they can get.......but it does not actually matter what scale you are on..the principle is the same and the price differential is still there. You can buy what you like at the price you like and you may be lucky enough that you have no need to make calculations including your work....but at whatever level of the craft/trade you are at there is a price differential. Up to you which way you choose to go. Saving over £250 a tonne matters to ME. Even though we use syrup mostly...over the course of a season just by this choice alone we save a couple of months of someones wages.

 

[madasafish]

If you make ultra bee up with sugar syrup it gos rock hard. Use invert

I add a small amount of vegetable oil.(0.5cups vs 1kg UBee per M Palmer's recipe.) NEVER goes hard

 

[Newbeeneil]

Maybe I might being a bit slow and thick but in the OP the company stated that bakers fondant could already have a HMF level almost twice the legal level for honey before they start manufacturing it!
I'm therefore more concerned about the fact that I could be eating fondant with high levels of HMF rather than a problem of feeding it to my bees. Should this supplier be more worried about testing for HMF in the bakers fondant rather than bee feed?

 

[Markthebuilder]

Maybe I might being a bit slow and thick but in the OP the company stated that bakers fondant could already have a HMF level almost twice the legal level for honey before they start manufacturing it!
I'm therefore more concerned about the fact that I could be eating fondant with high levels of HMF rather than a problem of feeding it to my bees. Should this supplier be more worried about testing for HMF in the bakers fondant rather than bee feed?

Tried but couldn’t find a legal limit for hmf in fondant for human consumption… hmf doesn’t appear to be a real concern for human health and apparently has benefits as well as risks.

The measurement of hmf levels in honey appears to be used as an indicator of quality age and weather it has been heat treated.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Tried but couldn’t find a legal limit for hmf in fondant for human consumption… hmf doesn’t appear to be a real concern for human health and apparently has benefits as well as risks.

The measurement of hmf levels in honey appears to be used as an indicator of quality age and weather it has been heat treated.

TBH I did the same regarding HMF levels for humans but couldn't square the augument for maximum value in honey if the honey was for human consumption. I can understand HMF being an indicator for age and heat treatment but it must be unusual to have a legal limit for something like that.

 

[Ian123]

Hmf not critical for us humans

 

[Markthebuilder]

I can understand HMF being an indicator for age and heat treatment but it must be unusual to have a legal limit for something like that.

I really don’t know, and the following is supposition…. it may be linked to water content in honey which has to be less than 20% to sell . Unscrupurlass persons could take unripe honey and reduce the water content by heating but this would raise the hmf
Ergo by putting a limit on the level of hmf you prevent the practice which also destroys the quality of honey in other ways like tast

 

[Patrick1]

Like a lot of products

Carl
I might yet. They will be doing Patrick out of sales at that price

Hmf not critical for us humans

Well FERA and WHO say the max in honey for human consumption should be 40 mg/kg

 

[roche]

Well FERA and WHO say the max in honey for human consumption should be 40 mg/kg

Can you give the references please?

 

[robinharman]

https://www.fera.co.uk/food-safety/in-this-section/authenticity-testing/hmf.html

 

[robinharman]

Can you give the references please?

 

[Boston Bees]

Like a lot of products


Well FERA and WHO say the max in honey for human consumption should be 40 mg/kg

That's as a marker of honey quality (i.e, to try to ensure it is really honey, and not some other product that has been subject to excessive heat to make it safe). It is not due to any concern over the effect of HMF on human health.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Like a lot of products


Well FERA and WHO say the max in honey for human consumption should be 40 mg/kg

I think some folk are talking about HMF in general. There's a heck of a lot in toffee for example

 

[Newbeeneil]

I think some folk are talking about HMF in general. There's a heck of a lot in toffee for example

And boiled sweets in general I suspect.

 

[Patrick1]

Can you give the references please?

There is so much of it online, it would be easier for you to just google it, then you can decide what to believe

 

[Anduril]

There is so much of it online, it would be easier for you to just google it, then you can decide what to believe

Bakers honey far exceeds the limits and it is used for cooking, leading to no harm. 3,000 year old honey consumed in Egypt, no curse or harm. I've eaten honey extracted back in the 1980's, I'm still here hitting the keyboard. In more recent research HMF allegedly has beneficial benefits.