The truth behind fondants

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Patrick1 

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I will just post the manufacturers response to the questions around bakers fondant and fondants designed for bees, this company supplies both EU wide. I am reluctant to give the supplier due to a conflict of interest.

" When we produce both bakers fondant and beefeed fondant we evaporate the water out at 140 ° C but this is not a source of HMF formation as this evaporation is a flash process ( so very quick).
For the beefeed fondant all ingredients are tested on HMF before using them – for bakers fondant not and it could be that we use sugars that have already 60 – 70 ppm HMF in them . For food and bakers fondant this is no problem, for bees it is. People who sell bakers fondant into beefeed do not know or tell this.

For the beefeed fondant we have a quality control on HMF during production and after production and I can tell you that in the plant now we get levels as low as 8 – 10 ppm HMF which is extremely low and is much lower than legally obliged (30 ppm).

Our beefeed is registered as animal feed and as such controlled by the Food and Feed agencies. Our bakers fondant is not qualified as beefeed !!! and thus should not be used in animal feeding. When the beekeeper gets an inspection by the Feed authorities he should be fined in fact as he is using not accepted ingredients and he should comply to the law on feeding animals !!!!

A lot of beekeepers do not know this or do not want to know it … They are in the same boat as pigbreeders, cowbreeders, chickenfarms …. They all have to use registered feedmixes"
 

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Are you saying that the feed can be trusted to perform consistently, reliably and economically. Is the feed unique, being made only from fully traceable, non-GM, sugar beet grown on British farms or registered EU sources ?? How close is the control over quality throughout the food chain??
"Our beefeed is registered as animal feed and as such controlled by the Food and Feed agencies. Our bakers fondant is not qualified as beefeed !!! and thus should not be used in animal feeding. When the beekeeper gets an inspection by the Feed authorities he should be fined in fact as he is using not accepted ingredients and he should comply to the law on feeding animals !!!!"
 

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Are you saying that the feed can be trusted to perform consistently, reliably and economically. Is the feed unique, being made only from fully traceable, non-GM, sugar beet grown on British farms or registered EU sources ?? How close is the control over quality throughout the food chain??
"Our beefeed is registered as animal feed and as such controlled by the Food and Feed agencies. Our bakers fondant is not qualified as beefeed !!! and thus should not be used in animal feeding. When the beekeeper gets an inspection by the Feed authorities he should be fined in fact as he is using not accepted ingredients and he should comply to the law on feeding animals !!!!"
Home made demands...
 

Into the lions den 

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Actually have visited some of these factories and been in their labs Patrick. Its 99% sales driven info. The hmf is a bit of a red herring...at the levels in bakers fondant it is pretty well harmless....and folk use 'registering'....if indeed it is registered..as a means to bump prices sky high on everything that they can register...varroa meds being the classic example when the same product registered is suddenly multiplied in price up to 50 times the rate for unregistered.

In a factory in mainland Europe making several brands of bee feed AND bakers fondant all on the one line out of the same tanks...they were quite open that the only difference was crystal size (the cooling rollers were colder to make it crystallise faster with more crystal nucleii thus smaller)....and even that is not an issue if you feed in a manner that the fondant does not dry out, and the idea they had separate tanks of compliant and non compliant ingredients was...except in rare and special cases....a sales construct.

Or...as the leading French bee farmer who was with me there described it to the makers face...'Just patter for sell'.

I for one will wait for them to come and confiscate my sugar tank and my fondant stock........and enjoy my day in court.
 

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I guess that unless you tell us who told you this, we can only take it as hearsay as we can't do our own research.
Most of these makers actually like giving people a trade tour. Go and ask.
 

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I will just post the manufacturers response to the questions around bakers fondant and fondants designed for bees, this company supplies both EU wide. I am reluctant to give the supplier due to a conflict of interest.

" ....
Our beefeed is registered as animal feed and as such controlled by the Food and Feed agencies. Our bakers fondant is not qualified as beefeed !!! and thus should not be used in animal feeding. When the beekeeper gets an inspection by the Feed authorities he should be fined in fact as he is using not accepted ingredients and he should comply to the law on feeding animals !!!!

A lot of beekeepers do not know this or do not want to know it … They are in the same boat as pigbreeders, cowbreeders, chickenfarms …. They all have to use registered feedmixes"
MRDA (Mandy Rice-Davies Applies)
 

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You certainly want to check the ingredients: Fondant Paste - Ingredients Directory
Almost without exception these products contain only sugar, invert sugar, water. Very similar profile to invert syrup but 82% solids instead of 72%.

The catch all lists of ingredients that link goes to covers everything that might be in any of the fondant based products these companies sell....we would never use chocolate icing for example...though did get offered several tonnes as part of a job lot one time.
 

Patrick1 

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Everyone should certainly check ingredients, I have seen cacking agents in the bakers fondant.

The main point is the treatment of the raw components these are undetectable and not listed and cannot be seen. In the processing from the raw to sugar it could easily have a potentially dangerous to bees level of HMF, unlike the product specifically designed for bees.
 

Patrick1 

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I guess that unless you tell us who told you this, we can only take it as hearsay as we can't do our own research.
It was our supplier, one of the largest in EU. No axe to grind they make for both markets

 

Patrick1 

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Are you saying that the feed can be trusted to perform consistently, reliably and economically. Is the feed unique, being made only from fully traceable, non-GM, sugar beet grown on British farms or registered EU sources ?? How close is the control over quality throughout the food chain??
"Our beefeed is registered as animal feed and as such controlled by the Food and Feed agencies. Our bakers fondant is not qualified as beefeed !!! and thus should not be used in animal feeding. When the beekeeper gets an inspection by the Feed authorities he should be fined in fact as he is using not accepted ingredients and he should comply to the law on feeding animals !!!!"
Yes, I trust our suppliers to be telling us the truth, as one of the largest manufacturers of both bakers fondant and bee fondant they have no axe to grind. Check it out for yourself,
12 x Fondabee, 1Kg. Fondant, a premier feed designed for bees.
write to them as I did asking the simple question, is bakers fondant good enough to feed to bees, they suggested the legal status.
 

Patrick1 

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Actually have visited some of these factories and been in their labs Patrick. Its 99% sales driven info. The hmf is a bit of a red herring...at the levels in bakers fondant it is pretty well harmless....and folk use 'registering'....if indeed it is registered..as a means to bump prices sky high on everything that they can register...varroa meds being the classic example when the same product registered is suddenly multiplied in price up to 50 times the rate for unregistered.

In a factory in mainland Europe making several brands of bee feed AND bakers fondant all on the one line out of the same tanks...they were quite open that the only difference was crystal size (the cooling rollers were colder to make it crystallise faster with more crystal nucleii thus smaller)....and even that is not an issue if you feed in a manner that the fondant does not dry out, and the idea they had separate tanks of compliant and non compliant ingredients was...except in rare and special cases....a sales construct.

Or...as the leading French bee farmer who was with me there described it to the makers face...'Just patter for sell'.

I for one will wait for them to come and confiscate my sugar tank and my fondant stock........and enjoy my day in court.
When we have sales on the price of fondant designed for bees is roughly the same as bakers fondant, I can buy bakers fondant from a UK supplier for less than £10 per 12.5kg box.

I have been a beekeeper for 20 years, although I enjoy running a verry successful company the drive has always to deliver good safe beekeeping products.

We were the first beekeeping company in England to obtain a UK licence to sell controlled treatments for bees, so we understand the importance of knowing rather than guessing.
 

Patrick1 

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Actually have visited some of these factories and been in their labs Patrick. Its 99% sales driven info. The hmf is a bit of a red herring...at the levels in bakers fondant it is pretty well harmless....and folk use 'registering'....if indeed it is registered..as a means to bump prices sky high on everything that they can register...varroa meds being the classic example when the same product registered is suddenly multiplied in price up to 50 times the rate for unregistered.

In a factory in mainland Europe making several brands of bee feed AND bakers fondant all on the one line out of the same tanks...they were quite open that the only difference was crystal size (the cooling rollers were colder to make it crystallise faster with more crystal nucleii thus smaller)....and even that is not an issue if you feed in a manner that the fondant does not dry out, and the idea they had separate tanks of compliant and non compliant ingredients was...except in rare and special cases....a sales construct.

Or...as the leading French bee farmer who was with me there described it to the makers face...'Just patter for sell'.

I for one will wait for them to come and confiscate my sugar tank and my fondant stock........and enjoy my day in court.
The WTO would disagree about that herring, HMF is extremely harmful to bees.
 

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Would be interested to know which legislation they are referring to WRT what you can feed bees...
 

Patrick1 

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I guess it’s in our legislation somewhere we flipped the EU legislation, I am not fully up with animal feeds, you could contact them, they are verry approachable.
 

Erichalfbee 

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So can I feed Sainsbury’s sugar to my bees?
 

Beebe 

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Somehow it's escalated to seven.
Are you saying that the feed can be trusted to perform consistently, reliably and economically. Is the feed unique, being made only from fully traceable, non-GM, sugar beet grown on British farms or registered EU sources ?? How close is the control over quality throughout the food chain??
"Our beefeed is registered as animal feed and as such controlled by the Food and Feed agencies. Our bakers fondant is not qualified as beefeed !!! and thus should not be used in animal feeding. When the beekeeper gets an inspection by the Feed authorities he should be fined in fact as he is using not accepted ingredients and he should comply to the law on feeding animals !!!!"
Who the heck are "the Feed authorities"? :laughing-smiley-014
 
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