Syrup strength

[Tremyfro]

A few weeks ago I made up some syrup....I had so many interruptions that in the end I was unsure of the amount of water I had added. Anyway, all the sugar dissolved. So I used it in 2 of the hives. One had a frame feeder and the other had a rapid feeder.
Today, we were going around all the colonies to check weights and feed or not as required.
When we got to the hive with the frame feeder....there was a moderate amount of crystallised syrup in the feeder...the bees were feeding on it and all the liquid syrup had gone.
In the hive with the rapid feeder...we were surprised to see that they hadn't taken down the syrup. The hive was a little lighter than required. We almost left it...determining to check again next week. Then I remembered that it had been full before I went on holiday...so we had left it.
Very curious! So we took a much closer look and realised the syrup had formed a thick layer of crystals around the base of the cup. The bees were in there but couldn't access the liquid syrup. DUH!!!
We took it off...emptied it and poured hot water into the feeder to dissolve the sugar. Then it was replaced and refilled...this time with the right solution.
Hopefully, all will be well and we can top up as soon as they have taken it down.
I have read before about bees not taking the syrup....perhaps other beekeepers make the mistake of making the syrup too strong...so it crystallises. Or, of course, it might just be me!!!
A good lesson learnt...pay attention when making syrup!

 

[pargyle]

Oh no ... Finman will be champing at the bit ....

 

[enrico]

Useful observation though.......thanks

 

[Finman]

Oh no ... Finman will be champing at the bit ....

My advice: Add water, if Sugar is too much. Add Sugar if water is too much.

.50 y experience.

 

[Tremyfro]

My advice: Add water, if Sugar is too much. Add Sugar if water is too much.

.50 y experience.

Yes..you are right. Unfortunately, I didn't realise the syrup was so strong that it would form crystals so easily. I do remember that it was thick to stir though. The fact that it blocked the feeder was the easy to miss. One good reason for being more accurate...however, it didn't affect the frame feeder...other than there were a few lumps of crystal...the bees could still feed from it.

 

[Finman]

[tupla

 

[Finman]

Yes..you are right. Unfortunately, I didn't realise the syrup was so strong that it would form crystals so easily. I do remember that it was thick to stir though. The fact that it blocked the feeder was the easy to miss. One good reason for being more accurate...however, it didn't affect the frame feeder...other than there were a few lumps of crystal...the bees could still feed from it.

It happens when syrup us quite hot, about 40C, and then it cools down.
Not rare in my feeding. Too strong syrup sticks like glue to the bees' hairs and legs.

 

[Finman]

.
This year I made syrup so that I filled 50 litre container to mark. Then I poured boiling water into the sugar so that syrup level was in mark. It was heavy syrup and bees took it down slower than before. But bees capped the stuff better.

Mostly I have not been so carefull what I put into mixture.

Actually filling system to mark is the most easy.

Yes yes that boiling. In Finland in ordinary life we use to say " hi, your water is boiling", when it gives boiling sounds. When it really boils, it is too late to say anything.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

Like Finman, when I make thick sugar syrup it is made to a volume. One voume of granulated sugar made up to that same volume with boiing water and stirred. Simple, KISS principle, almost idiot proof. No weight of sugar needed, no accurate volume of water required. So nothing to calculate and get wrong, any volume can be made without any recalculation. Yep most suitable for the mathematically challenged or the forgetful (as long as the initial sugar level was clearly marked).

But I would never use a frame feeder at his time of the year unless the colony was too small to overwinter! Too small and taking space that needs filling! The colony needs to be given syrup to take down as quickly as possible to fill the hive as full as possible.

I made several Ashforth type feeders but they have not been used for several years - just stacked up ready for use. I still get more than enough honey without recourse to thieving everything in the hive.

Fewer mistakes made when the process is kept simple. I never do hard maths if I can simplify the problem. Example: 2×2 is hard maths.
So I add 1to the first and take 1from the second (easy maths).
I can then muliply the 3 by the 1 (easy maths). Answer is 3.
I then multiply together the 1's that I added and sutracted. Simple maths - answer is 1
I then add together the two answers above and arrive at 4, without any difficult maths at all.

Works for any number, so don't say 2x2 is too easy. Try 19x19 (by adding and subtracting 1) or 44x44 (add and subtract 6 this time, to make it easy - OK, I can do manipulations with slightly larger numbers when I have to!)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Most of my syrup comes in a plastic jerry can and simply needs thymol added to it but if I need to make it up I do similar to RAB. Sugar in container, mark level, add hot water to same mark. Always works.

 

[Finman]

.
Do I use sugar flour or ready syrup?

I bought this year 600 kg sugar, £ 0.4/kg. Ready syrup was £ 1.0/sugar kg transported to home.

First time I bought automatic loundry machine to my cottage, £ 170.

It is the best business in beekeeping to break sugar packages.
.

 

[Tremyfro]

Well....it was simply that I got distracted whilst making the syrup. I don't have any difficulty in deciding how much sugar to water....it's hardly rocket science. I thought it was interesting that the crystals formed in the base of the rapid feeder...you couldn't see easily what had happened though...it was only when I tried to move the cup...that it became clear what had happened.....something to be aware of if the syrup is too concentrated. Especially if the bees are slow to take it down.
RAB...the frame feeder was used some weeks ago...but I only removed it yesterday....and discovered the crystallised syrup. I have now put 2 rapid feeders on instead as this colony needs more feeding...as you say...need to get the frames full....and I don't want to open the hive.
We have been feeding here since July as the nectar flows have been abysmal...except for a small flow from the HB in recent weeks. My 2 mature colonies have made honey extra to their needs...so I snaffled a frame of summer honey. This year we had about 44 lbs of honey from 2 colonies....mainly OSR. All my other colonies are new this year from nucs. No honey from them, of course, as the weather was so vile all summer...as I say I started feeding them in July. All look healthy though and have been treated for varroa....with lots of bees. Only one colony is small...due to queening issues. So hopefully as soon as the hives are heavy enough...they will go through the winter well.

 

[oliver90owner]

-I don't have any difficulty in deciding how much sugar to water

My point was that you don't even need to know the weight of sugar. No need for any calculations, remembering or writing down masses and volumes, or risk of measuring out the wrong amount. One mark or level is all that is required. The simplest way possible for this operation, as far as I can see. Why make hard work with calculations when there is an easy way?

Thick syrup can crystallise if it gets too cold. Erring on the slightly less thick side is clearly advantageous over the opposite. Crystals will fall to the bottom (you see that when mixing water and sugar). There is usually a simple reason why the sugar syrup is not taken down (not found, hive full, blocked access, too cold - can't think of any more at present.

Your post should perhaps have been directed to the beginners section where it would have been more useful?

RAB

 

[Tremyfro]

Thanks RAB..I only thought of that after I posted...but I guess everyone looks at all the posts anyway. I need to get a few more containers with handles for carrying...only got one...which I can hardly lift when full...ha ha..OH has to do that. The rest of my syrup goes into large plastic milk containers...which I can lift and pour from. I usually mix in a very large pan...it hold 10 litres plus a couple of smaller ones. Just adding hot water. I like the idea of marking the container though. It's always the simple things that are the best methods.

 

[oliver90owner]

10 litres? Large? Not in my book! That is only a typical honey bucket. How far would that go between thirsty colonies?

Get a 25 litre bucket is my advice - you don't have to fill it to the brim. Just add sugar, level it, mark the bucket and pour in boiling water to the mark. Job done after a bit of stirring. Add a little more water if you are over-cautious - 1.9:1 is good enough. The only difference is that weaker syrup may start to ferment more quickly in warm weather and requires marginally more work for the bees to reduce the moisture, to honey levels, and move a slightly larger volume. Neither you nor they would notice.

 

[pargyle]

Oh no ... Finman will be champing at the bit ....

See what you've started ? Didn't I warn you ?... Usual winter argument - Finnie's favourite ... how to make sugar syrup !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

See what you've started ? Didn't I warn you ?... Usual winter argument - Finnie's favourite ... how to make sugar syrup !

easy - pick up phone, speak to Marian - few days later truck turns up with pallet full of 2 gallon cans of syrup. All I've got to do now is get rid of all the empties

 

[pargyle]

easy - pick up phone, speak to Marian - few days later truck turns up with pallet full of 2 gallon cans of syrup. All I've got to do now is get rid of all the empties

Haven't you read The Great Escape by Paul Brickhill ? What you CAN'T do with used cans is the only question ?

 

[Finman]

See what you've started ? Didn't I warn you ?... Usual winter argument - Finnie's favourite ... how to make sugar syrup !

It is nice to consult Great Britain, how to mix water and sugar.

And you need not to weigh 1 kg package, because it use to be 1 kg. To measure 1 kg water is difficult, bug at least try.

 

[Tremyfro]

Ha ha...you lot crack me up!....this post is not about how to mix sugar and water....it's about a strong mix crystallising and blocking the rapid feeder...and how that led to the assumption that the bees had enough stores...which they didn't because I hefted the hive before looking in at the feeder. I had been hoping to take the feeder off.....but some things weren't adding up. The hive felt a little lighter than I expected. I like it so I can barely lift one side. There were bees in the feeder...but not many. The level of the syrup was still very high after a couple of weeks. The point was...that it is easy to be misled. Then when I tried to move the cup over the cone in the rapid feeder...it became clear the syrup had crystallised and blocked it. As the feeder was still full you couldn't see the crystallisation.
All the other colonies except these two had emptied the feeders. It's something to be aware of.
But thank you for all the great ideas about easy calculation of the sugar/water ratio and simple methods.
I can only just lift the 10 litre container...so a 25 litre might just become a permanent artistic feature in my kitchen. Most of my syrup was poured into small containers. Not very efficient ...but more manageable. I have had to adjust my beekeeping to avoid the lifting...hence the long hives....and poly hives.