To extract or not to extract

[simonwig]

The Apiarist has an article on when to treat and suggests that treatment ideally should be complete before the winter bees are raised, which seems to be bees emerging from mid-Sept onwards. This is so they are not infected by DWV or other viruses.

This would mean mid August is the ideal time to treat, which, if your are vaping, just means remove the super, vape, replace the super (times four), completed by mid September.

Simon

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

that's just his opinion, usually regurgitated from other writings - he's not some great beekeeping guru

 

[simonwig]

that's just his opinion, usually regurgitated from other writings - he's not some great beekeeping guru

Have you read the article, the rationale is fully explained, with references. By all means challenge the rationale, but to simply dismiss it adds nothing to the debate. Do explain where he's wrong, it will help us all decide when might be the best time to treat.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have,he mostly discusses treatment in Scotland, usually Apiguard, and we all know that Apiguard treatment is very much a matter of chance, especially in areas nwith colder temperatures., his opinion that varroa must be wiped out in August is very much his opinion, not fact.
You carry on following his mantra, I have never started treatment before mid September and have very low colony mortalities, with bees overwintering well. So yes, I will dismiss it - I'll leave you to the hero worship.

 

[Swarm]

This is the problem with beekeeping, there can be quite some variation depending on where we live and how we treat so we really need to find out what is best for our area and bees rather than take someone's advice as absolute fact.
Because everyone thinks their way is the best way.

 

[Amari]

really?
That sort of 'advice' is what's buggering up beekeeping - before long it will be July, then June.
And why fill a super with sugar syrup?

Yes. I’ve no idea why a “standard”like this is applied to varroa treatment.

1. I take off the summer honey in early August. I then treat for varroa to give the colony the best chance to raise healthy winter bees. Seems logical to me.
2. There's no room for dogmatic gospel in beekeeping. The joy of the craft is experimenting with different methods.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This would mean mid August

I’m sure he means in Scotland where he has his colonies. Bit different from the south of England.

 

[JamezF]

1. I take off the summer honey in early August. I then treat for varroa to give the colony the best chance to raise healthy winter bees. Seems logical to me.

Apologies for picking your post to respond to. It's not intended as any specific criticism of your view, just a relevant post from which to hang my comments.

You should do what you feel happy with, but is it genuinely logical? I'm not convinced. For example, if you treat too early then varroa numbers might increase significantly before the bees that will take the colony through the winter (I refuse to call them "winter bees" myself -- they're just bees that happen to have a different lifecycle to that we normally think of as "normal" for those raised during the Spring and Summer) are raised. There may be some "ideal point" where having varroa numbers at their lowest will boost the colony in terms of it surviving the Winter in the best possible condition, but I've not seen any evidence to suggest that we know when that might be, nor that we'd be able to recognise it when it occurred.

I have an issue with the entire concept of "raising winter bees". I'm a long way from convinced that it actually happens. My understanding is that they're not raised, they just "happen" when certain conditions in the colony are met (which may not only occur in the lead-up to Winter). They're the result of a change in the development process resulting from the environment that exists when they emerge, not some "conscious" decision within the colony like "oh, we need to start raising winter bees now". In fact I'd quite like the term "winter bees" to die. "Diutinus bees" I could live with. I think it avoids misunderstanding.

James