Supplements advice - Juiced up bees!

[For want of a better word]

But they died out.... Such superior.

British black bees are not very valuated around the world. They were exported to every continent long time ago, but they are not kept there any more.

How do you explain that?

Fake news from the Snow Fairie....... USA... Tasmania... Wompopoland.....

and now a new Chinese variant discovered apparently

 

[Poly Hive]

BTW I found a site to work out the current value of that 32/6 comes to some £73 seemingly so pretty cheap.

PH

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have just read the 1928 one and while there is an advert for Elbees packages of French bees, 32/6 for 3 pounds,

Now that's a coincidence, George Lee-Barber, the owner of Elbees is my better half's grandfather, he used to send the packages and queens to her mother, who was at college in Brighton, who used to check them and send them on to the purchaser.
We recently found some adverts from 1938 where the price for 3lbs had fallen to 31s.

Polyhive, I'd be very interested in seeing the advert you found. Is it possible to point me in the right direction?

 

[SDM]

Let's have a wee think about this please. He was a junior monk in a relatively isolated part of the world in the 1920s. Just how much of the world information do you think he was able to access? I doubt they had a radio, possibly a weekly newspaper and word of mouth.

PH

Bro Adam was hardly alone in that opinion though Pete.
A.R Cumming ( President of Invernesshire beekeeping association) and Margaret Logan( lecturer in beekeeping at North Scotland agricultural college) wrote in beekeeping craft and hobby wrote in 1950 That
"
the British Black Bee was in common use all over the country.
This bee is now probably extinct as a as a pure breed although in some parts of the Highlands and Islands of Scotland the ordinary hybrid now used is probably three quarters Black. "

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes indeed and I am sure in my own mind that they were around as recently as 25 years ago in the pure version.

This is where BIBBA dropped the biggest clanger ever. *shrug* I tried, they failed.

I have always suspected that BA was wrong about Amm and somehow convinced himself that because he couldn't find them they were gone. A classic incident of generalising from the particular.
What@s really interesting is the discussions that were being reported at the time. Big hives were better.... Frow mixture was being trialled. Ha I have found a treasure trove of history so be prepared to be bombarded....LOL But maybe next winter when the boredom sets in.

PH

 

[Poly Hive]

Newbeeneil if you pm me an email addy I'll try to send you it. It's going to be tricky though as its in PDF on the site and I honestly don't know if it's going to allow me to downlwoad.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Newbeeneil if you pm me an email addy I'll try to send you it. It's going to be tricky though as its in PDF on the site and I honestly don't know if it's going to allow me to downlwoad.

PH

If nothing else, a link to the site would allow Neil to sort it himself - or maybe a screenshot?

 

[mbc]

?!?!
I thought I mentioned this before in a Thread we were both on, you asked for the Research paper that I was paraphrasing from memory, and I gave you the name of it, you never replied nor followed up, so I thought you accepted it's (and my paraphrased) findings: Are you referring to a different paper that I am not aware of? Or are we both talking about the same one??? You need to be clear when you say "from what I've read of the Irish DNA results" can you please tell me the name of what you have read so that I can read it too, ... so that we can both be sure we are talking about the same thing ... and then we can both have a intelligible and informed conversation

PS: It's never my intention to knowingly make false statements (lies), however I may unknowingly make false statements (mistakes) - if so (as you seem to be saying) then please help me to correct (from your point of view) my (mis)understanding.

Dear God I don't thank you for making me go back and pick the bones out of that paper but I did and can confirm your assertion that " DNA evidence here in Ireland has confirmed our A.m.m's are mainly of Dutch (and some French) origin" is utter nonsense and that conclusion cannot possibly be drawn from the results of the paper you quoted (A significant pure population of the dark European honey bee (Apis mellifera mellifera) remains in Ireland" by Jack Hassett et al) unless you have no comprehension of mitochondrial assays and wish to paint your own biased picture which is in no way aligned to the authors findings, a sample of which I've included below for those who don't want to read through a rather dry and technical paper:

"Some European bees showed a proportional membership of 0.757 to “Irish” mellifera. However, the Irish bees show little introgression of European alleles with an average proportional membership of 0.007"

@TooBee don't bother replying unless it's to retract your blatant misrepresentation of information.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think all we are doing here is persisting on feeding the troll

 

[mbc]

I think all we are doing here is persisting on feeding the troll

True Mr. Jenkins, but in these times when fake news and lies are repeated so often a good proportion of people begin to believe them it's worth now and again to try and redress the balance with a wee bit of factual analysis.

 

[SDM]

"Some European bees showed a proportional membership of 0.757 to “Irish” mellifera. However, the Irish bees show little introgression of European alleles with an average proportional membership of 0.007"

.

Im a bit lost here( terms like "proportional membership go over my head), so is the paper suggesting that Europe was restocked with irish bees ? That sounds a little far fetched surely

 

[mbc]

Im a bit lost here( terms like "proportional membership go over my head), so is the paper suggesting that Europe was restocked with irish bees ? That sounds a little far fetched surely

North western European bees have common ancestors shocker.
Nothing to see here, the relevant conclusions of the paper were most samples tested were considered pure Amm, some groups had uniquely Irish areas of mDNA others with mDNA common to Amm samples from continental Europe and Scotland.
The authors conclusions were Ireland has a valuable resource of high purity Amm worth preserving.
If anyone has a better grasp of the DNA side of things in the paper (Gavin?) and would like to correct me at all, fire away.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

True Mr. Jenkins, but in these times when fake news and lies are repeated so often a good proportion of people begin to believe them it's worth now and again to try and redress the balance with a wee bit of factual analysis.

 

[SDM]

North western European bees have common ancestors shocker.
Nothing to see here, the relevant conclusions of the paper were most samples tested were considered pure Amm, some groups had uniquely Irish areas of mDNA others with mDNA common to Amm samples from continental Europe and Scotland.
The authors conclusions were Ireland has a valuable resource of high purity Amm worth preserving.
If anyone has a better grasp of the DNA side of things in the paper (Gavin?) and would like to correct me at all, fire away.

Ok , so its fair to say the study tells us nothing about whether the current irish pure population is actually native(to Ireland) or whether they simply imported one.
I suppose the proof of tbe pudding would be to see if the current shared genetics come from well known Amm reserves around Europe.

 

[Beefriendly]

If nothing else, a link to the site would allow Neil to sort it himself - or maybe a screenshot?

http://www.survivorlibrary.com
https://archive.org/

Don't know if they have any minority journals stored but certainly have back issues of the British and American Bee journals back to the 1880's. All accessible, although you need to register for the second one.

Little has changed...the debates are roughly the same

 

[mbc]

Ok , so its fair to say the study tells us nothing about whether the current irish pure population is actually native(to Ireland) or whether they simply imported one.
I suppose the proof of tbe pudding would be to see if the current shared genetics come from well known Amm reserves around Europe.

Not so, some of the bees sampled were unique to Ireland, some had a mitochondria seen elsewhere too.
Does it matter?
There is mention of Dutch input to the ancestry of the galtee bees, it's no secret.

 

[For want of a better word]

http://www.survivorlibrary.com
https://archive.org/

Don't know if they have any minority journals stored but certainly have back issues of the British and American Bee journals back to the 1880's. All accessible, although you need to register for the second one.

Little has changed...the debates are roughly the same

Now with all your claimed degrees in all things bees I would have thought at least you would not make such a crass statement....... Things have changed...
I have seen the powerful new DNA techniques now being use by the Edinburgh Roslyn Institute... whole bee genome plus every other bit of DNA associated with the bee... gut bugs.. parasites.. even down to plant that pollen came from when the beast was alive......

And in hours not years!

Easy peasy now to distinguish the bees ancestry.... mine are Cornish Amm... the Irish are Amm to be sure, to be sure... all be it with a bit of french and a bit of Dutch in the mix.... one thing... they are not a Mediterranean sub species mongrel!!

All I really need to say on the subject!
QED

 

[Beefriendly]

I would have thought at least you would not make such a crass statement....... Things have changed...

Go play with your boils you ignorant troll.

 

[Beefriendly]

Easy to see why we have local mongrel bees and no totally "pure" Amm's in this country....
Ads taken from 1922 British Bee Journal.
And we think we import a lot of queens today....
LOL

I'm intrigued by the Acarine 1921 pad....guaranteed or your money back...

 

[For want of a better word]

Go play with your boils you ignorant twit.

You really are just a foul mouth yob with little manners or any respect for anyone who does not follow your own ideology.

Thymallus.. Banned
Truble... Banned


Admin...