Solid or Mesh Floors

[robmort]

The inspection tray that comes with an OMF poly hive is at least as good as a solid floor, being made of insulated correx and a sliding fit around the edges. Most of the draft when inserted would be from the entrance as with a solid floor.

 

[SteveG]

I'm sorry, but what is the survey asking?
It all seems very ambiguous - is the question 'Do you have damp mouldy hives? if so, do you have OMF or solid floors?

Or something else?

Yes, sorry not very clear. I should have asked "Solid or Mesh (OMF)" Can't edit question sadly.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, sorry not very clear. I should have asked "Solid or Mesh (OMF)" Can't edit question sadly.

Done it for you. Is that ok?

 

[seillean mil]

Be aware that if you have a mesh floor with a solid one underneath you will have to clear the debris practically every day because the bees won’t be able to do it.
If you are thinking of your set up to give the bees a solid floor and you the option of measuring mite levels please consider that natural drop is a wholly inaccurate way if doing it.

I was thinking of a solid-floor as something to eliminate all gaps however tiny, so that I had the option of limiting any uncontrolled ventilation. A correx sheet placed on the floor would deal with debris, including varroa.
It may be an inaccurate way to estimate varroa numbers, but continuous use of an inspection board will eventually give a good idea of infestation for that hive, relative to previous months.

 

[pargyle]

When I made my long hive I wanted an open mesh floor but I wanted to protect the space underneath it from draughts so I constructed a drawer under the mesh floor that was about 50mm or so deep - the inspection board sits in the drawer and with a greased board I reckoned that any mites that fell that far would either be dead or stuck to the board and would die. As I've said I didn't get many mites but the system worked quite well.

You can see what I mean here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157634865981506
When I got my Poly hives I wanted to replicate in some way that arrangement but with a simpler arrangement ... so these are my hive stands ... they protect the bottom of the hives from draughts and again the inspection board sits about 50mm below the mesh floor instead of in the slides in the bottom of the hive ... I think the slots are too close to the underside of the mesh.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157644503927472
I tend to leave the inspection boards in a lot of the time .. it gives me an idea of what is happening in the colonies and it's far enough below the mesh to allow some airflow below the hive - I can see where the bees are working the combs, where the brood is emerging and where they are uncapping stores in winter (and where they are mainly living in the hive). I clean the boards off regularly, obviously, although I occasionally find the odd earwig or pollen mites feeding on the debris. I seal the ends of the inspection boards with aluminium tape as the otherwise the tubes of the correx provide a hidden home for any critters ... the inspection boards do provide a ready reckoner for the varroa levels although it's only a rough indication - just an opportunity to keep an eye out and if I see anything unusual do a sugar roll (no sugar rolls in winter of course).

 

[user 6228]

All hives with mesh floors lose heat by radiation. Most lose it by natural, and forced convection as well. Those losses are signficant. Most solid floors lose heat by conduction.

 

[seillean mil]

Most solid floors lose heat by conduction.

Here's a thought; how about insulating the floor as well as it making it solid? I'm off to buy some shares in Kingspan.

 

[elainemary]

If you can remove the solid floor under the omf to clean it, then it's a drawer.

I have 2 WBCs with this design ie a drawer that slides in underneath the OMF. Nice feature, can pop a corex in to monitor mites and v snug in my home apiary 1000ft up in the Yorkshire south Pennines. Have glass crownboard and kingspan on top and rarely see any condensation, other than a few drops on the edges , which is probably useful for the bees to dilute honey

 

[Amari]

Here's a thought; how about insulating the floor as well as it making it solid? I'm off to buy some shares in Kingspan.

Could be a dodgy investment. Kingspan and Celotex were used in the insulation cladding at Grenfell Towers according to the current Enquiry. Could be heavily criticised/held liable?

 

[user 6228]

Could be a dodgy investment. Kingspan and Celotex were used in the insulation cladding at Grenfell Towers according to the current Enquiry. Could be heavily criticised/held liable?

Especially if it compromises the fire resistance rating of the combs.

 

[seillean mil]

Could be a dodgy investment. Kingspan and Celotex were used in the insulation cladding at Grenfell Towers according to the current Enquiry. Could be heavily criticised/held liable?

I thought that even as I wrote that flippant comment; but I didn't want to venture there.

 

[user 6228]

Here's a thought; how about insulating the floor as well as it making it solid? I'm off to buy some shares in Kingspan.

You can make the floor out of recticel/kingspan, but remember to cover it in ally foil tape as standing condensation softens the facing eventually to bees burrowing through it. Though iy might take a year or 3 for it to soften/corrode enough for it to happen. I have used these floors for 8+ years

 

[masterBK]

Mice and rats can also chew through it quite quickly. Presumably derekm has found a way to prevent them accessing it. Have also had mice chew the edges of my correx inspection boards.

 

[user 6228]

Mice and rats can also chew through it quite quickly. Presumably derekm has found a way to prevent them accessing it. Have also had mice chew the edges of my celotex inspection boards.

I have some metal stands .. but havent had a problem on the cinderblocks either.. More a problem is birds pecking the shiny aluminium foil tape on the corners They dont get in it just makes it look a bit tatty.. I use bit of folded ally sheet to dissuade them.

 

[Barbarian]

For several years, I used wooden National floors at the bottom of my hives. In early spring, I scraped the debris off. Several times I found a patch of damp/mouldy debris on the floor. I found that raising the rear of the hive during winter stopped this happening.

I reasoned that cold damp air in the hive fell to the floor and then flowed out of the front of the hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For several years, I used wooden National floors at the bottom of my hives. In early spring, I scraped the debris off. Several times I found a patch of damp/mouldy debris on the floor. I found that raising the rear of the hive during winter stopped this happening.

I reasoned that cold damp air in the hive fell to the floor and then flowed out of the front of the hive.

More likely condensation dripped onto the floor - once you tilted the hive, it drilled out

 

[mbc]

That depends on your arrangement. If you just have a simple slide-in insert, then there's also ventilation.

For my plain correx inserts I fill the end space with a strip of foam. This is useful in August when doing varroa treatments as it's also a peak time for silent robbing under the omf after the flow.

I also have some floors with ply inserts which are more tightly fitted and have an end cap. I'll dig one out and take a photo this afternoon.

A permanent solid floor under an omf is an invitation for wax moth as it would be difficult to clean regularly enough.

Is silent robbing through mesh floors a thing?

 

[pargyle]

Is silent robbing through mesh floors a thing?

How does that work ? Surely they can't get in through the mesh ? Am I missing something ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How does that work ? Surely they can't get in through the mesh ? Am I missing something ?

Long thin straws
It's like out in Tanzania if you sleep with the window open, even if there are bars on them, the wily thief will use a long stick with blutak or similar on the end and reach through and pinch your phone.

 

[North End Bees]

How does that work ? Surely they can't get in through the mesh ? Am I missing something ?

They don't need to get in. They beg food from under the floor and get fed! That's why it's 'silent'.
I don't know how they persuade the nurse bees to feed them. Maybe they have the colony smell from being under the omf? But it's definitely a thing!