Mesh floor question

[madasafish]

Hi

Two points

Millet and Madasafish say they leave the inspection tray in all the time , well overwinter anyway......I had been led to believe that you shouldn't as it's the only source of ventilation ( without the matchstick business that is)

Only leave it in if its on a very exposed site. So is there a correct answer to this inspection tray Hokey Kokey thing or it doesn't matter?

Also another thing I was led to believe ( Gospel) that OMF's had a major effect on varroa mite reduction..... Now I read Jenkinsbyrnmair post " Mesh floors have little or no effect, never have.....Fake News!!

I must say as a newbie BK trying to do the right thing ...I'm confused!

I take out varroa floors after Spring, but do nothing to add ventilation to solid floor hives except remove all entrance blocks.
All my hives are poly or wood with poly covers..

I must say having trained as a physicist , many (but not all) of beekeeping "rules" do not stand any kind of testing.. but as my hive configurations differ from UK Nationals in many ways (Lang humbos with poly covers) it is impossible to know why .

I do what works.. and if alternative methods work just as well, I treat the "laws" as junk.

There are specific things that have been tested..- removing attendants when requeening - which said that gave better results - bu I have found no difference. Maybe statistically I don't have enough hives..


Like opinion polls, testing bees needs to be quite rigorous or you will get anomalous results. If - as the case with many - there have been no tests- then it's a matter of opinion and therefore bull excrement.

Most UK beekeepers who were prominent and wrote books appeared to be incapable of rigorous assessment - and still are. I refer to one writer of a book on bee queens who spent the first third of his book on one subject claiming somethings as gospel without ONE statistic. or reference to any test. I treated his claims with the respect they deserve.. nil. (he is still alive)

 

[Apiarisnt]

Effect of screen floors on populations of honey bees and parasitic mites (Varroa destructor)

"These results suggest that colonies with open-screen floors may hold back the growth of mite populations by decreasing the rate at which mites invade brood cells."

 

[madasafish]

varroa levels might vary with entrance size and insulation levels if there was an insulated solid floor as well...

Some but not all of my hives have insulated floors.. Can't say they make any noticeable difference. Generally my mite levels are low but I appear to always have one hive - usually large - with huge mite levels in July?august. This may be due to robbing of a hive decimated by varroa (not mine)

 

[Apiarisnt]

Influence of Varroa Mite (Varroa destructor) Management Practices on Insecticide Sensitivity in the Honey Bee (Apis mellifera)

"Varroa mite levels in the IPM group were managed using non-chemical control methods of screened bottom boards, trapping Varroa mites in drone brood, and coating bees with powdered sugar to dislodge Varroa mites."

"Since IPM practices were largely ineffective at reducing Varroa mite infestation, reliance on chemical methods of Varroa mite management is likely to continue. "

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

varroa levels might vary with entrance size and insulation levels if there was an insulated solid floor as well...

So you have no idea then.

 

[For want of a better word]

So you have no idea then.

Nobody knows... Oh how the mightee have fallen!

( Humour)

Nadelik Lowen

 

[Nordicul]

"These results suggest that colonies with open-screen floors may hold back the growth of mite populations by decreasing the rate at which mites invade brood cells."

Thanks Apiarisnt for that post and link. I'll sleep sounder in the bed tonight knowing that after all, I seem to be doing the right thing for my bees by having them on an OMF.

The article though is fourteen years old so that will leave plenty of time for someone to find a newer piece of research that contradicts it...... But meantime I'll sleep sound!

Thanks

 

[user 6228]

So you have no idea then.

I have lot of ideas, but I haven't labelled or categorised any of them as "no"

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So all surmise, no data.

 

[user 6228]

So all surmise, no data.

So one needs to have conducted a 3 year experiment with 30 replications just to ask a question on this forum then? A pretty high bar for a bit of light discussion

 

[TooBee...]

So one needs to have conducted a 3 year experiment with 30 replications just to ask a question on this forum then? A pretty high bar for a bit of light discussion

Whenever I'm tempted to reply or when I consider entering into a debate ... I ... click ... below
and you know something, I bet you he has

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So one needs to have conducted a 3 year experiment with 30 replications just to ask a question on this forum then? A pretty high bar for a bit of light discussion

And was that 'experiment' all to do with varroa control then?
Probably not
And was it worthwhile?
............................

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Whenever I'm tempted to reply or when I consider entering into a debate ... I ... click ... below
and you know something, I bet you he has

And whenever you poke your oar in I wonder whether you really are a fresh new beginner who just likes to ask looooads of of questions about AMM DNA rather than the usual newbie appeal for assistance.
Or whether it is, once again a new carboard cutout for a serial troll?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the casual chucker of little rocks

And there he describes himself in a nutshell.
Sits on the bankside throwing stones to see what ripples he can cause.
Just the same as his predecessor/mentor/alter ego, call it what you will - just trolling for a reaction.

 

[Angularity]

"These results suggest that colonies with open-screen floors may hold back the growth of mite populations by decreasing the rate at which mites invade brood cells."

Thanks for that, very interesting.

Data from Table 3 in that paper shows that there are statistically significant differences in the total mite population (although the differences in arithmetic means are tiny) and the number of cells of capped brood, at the end of the experiments. In both cases the open screen floor performed better. Total bee populations show a non-significant trend towards higher populations in the OMF hives. The mites appear to spend longer on the adult bees in the OMF hives (the values for percent mites in brood).

A lower P-MIB in hives with open-screen floors means that mites in those hives are remaining on adult bees for a longer time. We assume that mites in a colony are either in brood cells or on adult bees, and P-MIB describes the percentage of the mite pop- ulation that is in the reproductive mode (in a brood cell). Because there is very little variation in how long a mite remains in a brood cell (mites must leave a cell when the host bee emerges as an adult or possibly sooner if a cell is prematurely uncapped by an adult bee), P-MIB is largely controlled by how soon after leaving a cell that a mite returns to a brood cell (the length of time that mites remain on adult bees). The best case for beekeepers would be if mites never entered brood cells (P- MIB = 0). At 0% MIB, mite populations would disappear with the natural mortality of the adults. If the average mite remained on adult bees for only 3 days before entering a brood cell, we would observe P-MIB = 81% (see Otten, 1991, Harbo & Harris, 1999b). In the combined data from both experiments (table 3), P-MIB averaged 57% for the open-screen floor and 74% for controls. This means that for the average varroa mite, the time span between leaving a brood cell and entering another cell (the time spent on adult bees) was 9.4 days in hives with an open-screen floor and 4.4 days in control hives.

I can't help thinking that there is something to do with the average time a mite will spend on an adult bee. So, most mites fall off in search of a new host around 3 days after adult emergence. There will be a 'normal' distribution in every mite population, so some will hang on for 9 or even 14 days, regardless of the hive floor, while others drop off within hours. The data for the OMF floor is skewed because the ones that fall off early disappear from the population, whereas the ones on the solid floor remain in the hive and go to a new host. Hence a higher percentage of the overall mite population seen in the brood and less brood overall.

The consequence of this should be the higher number of cells of capped brood observed in the OMF hives, which must be a good thing.

I think I'll stick with my OMF's.

 

[Walrus]

The reason I use the floors that I do is (a) it's whatever equipment I have available lying around and (b) what works best for my bees in my area based on my experience. I prefer to use solid floors because my bees seem to do better in them but use mesh if no solids are left. The only difference I have seen is that solid floors seem better over winter.

Regarding varroa, no floor type dispenses with the need to monitor mite loads and treat as appropriate.

 

[Poly Hive]

Mesh floors began in the 80's after research showed that coupled with top insulation wintering success was improved.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Mesh floors began in the 80's after research showed that coupled with top insulation wintering success was improved.

Improved in any particular location... or was improved worldwide?

 

[Beefriendly]

Mesh floors began in the 80's after research showed that coupled with top insulation wintering success was improved.

PH

Which research was this?

 

[Poly Hive]

The work was published in the ABJ so take from that what you will.

The testing was done in Aberdeenshire and again take from that what you will.

PH