Save our forests

[Brosville]

"take the two golf courses that Woburn estates built in some of the woodland they own, one 18 hole and a 36 hole = no loose of public acces, more use of land, more employment, and the bit that makes the world go round, more profit from that given area."

Golf courses are "green concrete" - sterile areas blanket-bombed with "icides", and constantly mowed and flattened using scarce energy - an utter eco disaster, arguably it'd be less damaging to concrete the areas.............

 

[VEG]

Well people will but christmas trees lol

 

[MODNOD]

"take the two golf courses that Woburn estates built in some of the woodland they own, one 18 hole and a 36 hole = no loose of public acces, more use of land, more employment, and the bit that makes the world go round, more profit from that given area."

Golf courses are "green concrete" - sterile areas blanket-bombed with "icides", and constantly mowed and flattened using scarce energy - an utter eco disaster, arguably it'd be less damaging to concrete the areas.............

The problem with tarring everyone with the the same brush is not all golf courses use your blanket bombed icides theory.

 

[buzzin]

telephone?

Hmm

Without wishing to get into a political debate - which I refuse to do - you may have tried to get a new phone from the nationalised BT before privatisation. If you were lucky it took 10 weeks.

Pretty tarnished silver...

But I suspect you're all too young to remember - lucky people..

I'm not! but I'm still waiting for France to start selling off its power infrastructure. Nothing like being able to milk the consumers (with as of today,our governments approval) in another country!
Regards
buzzin

 

[buzzin]

Brosville
I agree 100% with you on DEFRA. A track record of abject failure. BSE and then foot and mouth..

As for trees, I suspect that whomever buys the forests will keep growing and cutting. Most of the land is fit for nothing else..

And maybe a tax break!
Regards
buzzin

 

[Stiffy]

Brosville
I agree 100% with you on DEFRA. A track record of abject failure. BSE and then foot and mouth..

As for trees, I suspect that whomever buys the forests will keep growing and cutting. Most of the land is fit for nothing else..

That’s strange I thought it was the mismanagement by farmers that bought on the BSE and foot and mouth problems, DEFRA have just been attempting to cover up the mess made. Believe me I dislike DEFRA but mainly because all the money is directed to the subsidy junkies, farmers.

I signed the petition a while ago, not that it will make a difference to the arrogant baxxrds most of us didn’t vote for and got into No 10 by default!

It’s not just the forests they want to sell; they also want to sell off all our national parks, probably as grouse moors that will then be denuded of all wildlife apart from pheasant and grouse!


That’s my rant for the evening, blimey I feel better
Cheers
S

 

[Hivemaker.]

Foot and mouth escapes from government lab...how is that the fault of the farmers?
Most shoots i know of have plenty of wildlife,apart from the pheasants and partriges....and pheasants don't do to well on a grouse moor...they need tree's..lol.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-summers-80m-foot-mouth-disease-crisis.html

 

[oliver90owner]

mismanagement by farmers that bought on the BSE

And how would you justify that comment? Are you suggesting that farmers were processing their dead animals into feedstuffs? I think not.

all the money is directed to subsidy junkies, farmers

An uncalled for comment, I think. Farmers only get/got what the government provides/provided. Those were basically payments to increase the less profitable parts of agriculture so that there were not higher prices, and/or shortages, for consumers.

got into No 10 by default

The system is one of 'first past the post'. Complain about the system but not the result. Simply abide by the rules, not whinge because the result was not what you wanted. Another 'move the goalposts until I get the right result' type of person. There are a lot out there.

I seem to recall that a lot of our gold reserves were sold off rather cheaply, not so long ago.

I would not trust any politician, whatever party they might be, but that is what we have to put up with. They don't tell lies (too often) but certainly do not tell the truth either.

RAB

 

[For want of a better word]

( Tractor man is a farmer... not that that has anything to do with bees and the trees)

but a fair comment none the less


as for Green Concrete... that would be another way of capping contaminated land... and most golf courses would fall neatly into that catagory due to the amount of #~icides poured onto them!​

 

[MODNOD]

That’s strange I thought it was the mismanagement by farmers that bought on the BSE and foot and mouth problems, DEFRA have just been attempting to cover up the mess made. Believe me I dislike DEFRA but mainly because all the money is directed to the subsidy junkies, farmers.

I signed the petition a while ago, not that it will make a difference to the arrogant baxxrds most of us didn’t vote for and got into No 10 by default!

It’s not just the forests they want to sell; they also want to sell off all our national parks, probably as grouse moors that will then be denuded of all wildlife apart from pheasant and grouse!


That’s my rant for the evening, blimey I feel better
Cheers
S

You really have no idea do you infact your knowledge of how defra works is in line with defra's knowledge of how defra works.

With you in depth knowledge of farming, please feel free to enlighten the rest of us how farmers caused the F.M. and BSE problems.

Wildlife on shooting estates is far higher than that found on non shooting estates.

 

[madasafish]

That’s strange I thought it was the mismanagement by farmers that bought on the BSE and foot and mouth problems, DEFRA have just been attempting to cover up the mess made. Believe me I dislike DEFRA but mainly because all the money is directed to the subsidy junkies, farmers.

I signed the petition a while ago, not that it will make a difference to the arrogant baxxrds most of us didn’t vote for and got into No 10 by default!

It’s not just the forests they want to sell; they also want to sell off all our national parks, probably as grouse moors that will then be denuded of all wildlife apart from pheasant and grouse!


That’s my rant for the evening, blimey I feel better
Cheers
S

I always feel a warm glow when people who disagree with me show their total ignorance of the subject which they disagree with me on.

Anyone at all interested in green issues does some basic research and tries to know what they are talking about. Those that don't - reply with major factual inaccuracies.

Having worked in forests and grouse moors, I can confidently state the "rant" was correctly described...

 

[Stiffy]

I always feel a warm glow when people who disagree with me show their total ignorance of the subject which they disagree with me on.

Anyone at all interested in green issues does some basic research and tries to know what they are talking about. Those that don't - reply with major factual inaccuracies.

Having worked in forests and grouse moors, I can confidently state the "rant" was correctly described...

Cant account for your warm glow but hope it makes you happy!


Hmmmm just because you worked on a grouse moor doesn’t make you an expert either and from your reply it shows a very biased view.

"major factual inaccuracies"

I dont think so
Having done part of my dissertation on moorland habitats probably gives me a broader perspective on the problems created by the people who beleive they are looking after the countryside. For instance you just have to look at the persecution of hen harriers in this country and were the problems are emanating from?

Cheers
S

 

[madasafish]

DEFRA were responsible for the last BSE outbreak.
Never seen a pheasant on any grouse moor.
Pheasants tend to live in deciduous woodland with nearby pastureland/crops.

Where do I claim I am an "expert"? Or looking after the countryside?

Persecution of hen harriers, hare coursing, etc.. all products of a bygone age and bygone outlooks. Rather like supporting the use of pesticides in agriculture - which no sane beekeeper would of course..

 

[oliver90owner]

and from your reply it shows a very biased view.

I don't think my posts are being read by stiffy so I can agree wholeheartedly with Madasafish on this one. No Bias, as far as I can see; very factual and spot on really.

I sometimes wonder who might be marking/assessing these 'dissertations' that are so blandly bandied around. Getting consideration from a biased adjudicator by leaning one way with opinions and non-facts is all OK (if that is what happened) but, gladly, it won't wash on a forum as widely based as this. Knowing the difference between these two habitats (grouse moorland and forests) is a good start to becoming an expert.

RAB

 

[Stiffy]

mismanagement by farmers that bought on the BSE

And how would you justify that comment? Are you suggesting that farmers were processing their dead animals into feedstuffs? I think not.

all the money is directed to subsidy junkies, farmers

An uncalled for comment, I think. Farmers only get/got what the government provides/provided. Those were basically payments to increase the less profitable parts of agriculture so that there were not higher prices, and/or shortages, for consumers.

got into No 10 by default

The system is one of 'first past the post'. Complain about the system but not the result. Simply abide by the rules, not whinge because the result was not what you wanted. Another 'move the goalposts until I get the right result' type of person. There are a lot out there.

I seem to recall that a lot of our gold reserves were sold off rather cheaply, not so long ago.

I would not trust any politician, whatever party they might be, but that is what we have to put up with. They don't tell lies (too often) but certainly do not tell the truth either.

RAB

An uncalled for comment, I think. Farmers only get/got what the government provides/provided. Those were basically payments to increase the less profitable parts of agriculture so that there were not higher prices, and/or shortages, for consumers.

Sorry a true statement of fact, no other industry as far I am aware receives and relies on the same amount of subsidy as farming!

got into No 10 by default

The system is one of 'first past the post'. Complain about the system but not the result. Simply abide by the rules, not whinge because the result was not what you wanted. Another 'move the goalposts until I get the right result' type of person. There are a lot out there

I certainly don’t propose to ‘move any goal; posts and sadly you have started to try and put your own spin on this and I am not ‘whinging’ as you put it! This government did get into No 10 by default please look at the results. If you remember no party got an overall majority and the conservative are being ‘propped’ up by the Lib Dems.

I seem to recall that a lot of our gold reserves were sold off rather cheaply, not so long ago.
No idea so will not comment

I would not trust any politician, whatever party they might be, but that is what we have to put up with. They don't tell lies (too often) but certainly do not tell the truth either.
And you say I am ‘whinging’ ???

What I actually said "It’s not just the forests they want to sell; they also want to sell off all our national parks, probably as grouse moors that will then be denuded of all wildlife apart from pheasant and grouse”

National Parks include coniferous and deciduous woodlands as well as heathland. Please read properly and not misquote.

PS I did my Uni stint when it actually meant something

 

[Stiffy]

DEFRA were responsible for the last BSE outbreak.
Never seen a pheasant on any grouse moor.
Pheasants tend to live in deciduous woodland with nearby pastureland/crops.

Where do I claim I am an "expert"? Or looking after the countryside?

Persecution of hen harriers, hare coursing, etc.. all products of a bygone age and bygone outlooks. Rather like supporting the use of pesticides in agriculture - which no sane beekeeper would of course..

The tone and continued attack on me made it sound as if you were an expert which you are obviously not!

But as you rightly said please get your facts right:
From RSPB.
The hen harrier, relative to its population, is considered the most persecuted bird of prey in the UK because of its unpopularity on grouse moors. It suffered a huge decline during the 19th century and became confined to Orkney until the 1930s when new forestry plantations provided suitable habitat to allow the recolonisation of mainland Britain

"Raptor study group data consistently identify poorer breeding performance by peregrines on managed grouse moor than on other upland land-use areas. In north-east Scotland, for example, average productivity at 66 upland peregrine sites was measured over four breeding seasons"

From yesterdays paperCambridge First: not a bygone age

A 28-year-old, from Hertfordshire, was fined £300 and ordered to pay £85 costs for an offence in Little Wilbraham Road, Bottisham, on September 10 2010.

He was also disqualified from driving for three months.

A 46-year-old, from Nottinghamshire, was fined £235 and ordered to pay £100 costs, and a 29-year-old from Oxfordshire was fined £145 and ordered to pay £100 costs after they were caught hare coursing in Grunty Fen Road, Witcham, Ely, on September 18.
Cheers
S

PS my appolgies for getting info about BSE wrong.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Stiffy....if you denude a grouse more of all wildlife,what are the grouse going to live on?

 

[madasafish]

Stiffy

You continue to misunderstand me:


I said hare coursing was the product of a bygone era : like using pesticides . Pesticides are still in use. You quote me extracts saying hare coursing is still in existence.
So? What is your point? I did not say it was extinct.

Such loose and floppy thinking is typical of many green supporters - and you just have given me another example to prove that contention .

Of course I'm not an expert. If I was, I would be paid by Bayer...

 

[Stiffy]

Stiffy

You continue to misunderstand me:


I said hare coursing was the product of a bygone era : like using pesticides . Pesticides are still in use. You quote me extracts saying hare coursing is still in existence.
So? What is your point? I did not say it was extinct.

Such loose and floppy thinking is typical of many green supporters - and you just have given me another example to prove that contention .

Of course I'm not an expert. If I was, I would be paid by Bayer...

Again my mistake, I was under the impression that you were saying it was a thing of the past and was not carried on now, my appologies
Must be ready for a break.

 

[VEG]

This thread is more interesting than the tv I think we are all suffering from no bee contact lol.