Questions about managing honeybee diseases

[Gilberdyke John]

I heard that a lot of his research was motivated by fears of congenital illnesses in his children as he had married his cousin and inbreeding was pretty prevalent in his family.

Pre mechanical transport days not many rural folk had a lot of choice I suppose

 

[researcher8899]

Hi Researcher!

I think delicacy is needed, based on the understanding that people want to try different things, and believe in different narratives.

Some want to maximise their honey crop. This takes in the commercial beekeepers, obviously, but much of the amateur tradition also has this aim at its core.

Some want to help bees recover a measure of self-sufficiency, and recognize - or believe - that the practices of the first group are one of major causes of lack of self sufficiency. In return the first group believes the actions of the second are an important cause of their problems.

In the main, I think, this clash of motives plays out in the treatment free arguments - that do arouse great passions.

None of this is helped by general ignorance - or the ignoring of - the principles of animal husbandry in both parties. The ultimate cause of ill health is failure of selection for the fittest strains. Until that understanding is recovered, and put into systematic practice, the bee is condemned to ill health, and the divide between exploiter and healer will remain, and remain passionate.

In my humble opinion.

Hi, thanks so much for this, really helpful insights.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pre mechanical transport days not many rural folk had a lot of choice I suppose

My father always said that a generation or two back there weren't many grandmothers in our little corner of paradise.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I had a conversation a few years back with a heart specialist from Norwich hospital. He said that they had one of the top heart research centres based there because there was so much inbreeding in Norfolk that it was the centre for congenital heart disease!

 

[Beesnaturally]

The theoretical principle yes, but it has often been doubted.
"the ultimate dream he (Darwin) never fully addressed—the origin, as compared with the development, of species........"
......"the great challenges for contemporary biology and medicine—how a graded change occurring sometimes over millions years can lead to a rubicon, only after which is the new process susceptible to the forces of natural selection"................

If you are going to quote you should give your source. There are tens of thousands of mostly US religious writings attempting to undermine Darwin. None of them are worth the paper they are written on.

 

[Beesnaturally]

But what Darwin's theory does not explain is, that why honeybee has not been able to shake its typical diseases off via evolution.

If bee diseases have been in bees millions of years, how beelovers can breed the disease off in few years. Too much imagination and less knowledge, I would say.

Organisms and their predators (including parasites and disease pathogens) are in a constant 'arms race'. Disease organisms mutate constantly, and the target organisms have to find ways of fighting back. It is never over for any organism.

That answers your question.

 

[Beesnaturally]

This is what I meant when I said beekeepers as a whole are clueless about the most basic principle of animal husbandry!

 

[Finman]

Organisms and their predators (including parasites and disease pathogens) are in a constant 'arms race'. Disease organisms mutate constantly, and the target organisms have to find ways of fighting back. It is never over for any organism.

That answers your question.

Thank you. First it seemed smart, but I cannot see any fights in my hives. Perhaps ants and bees fight, and woodpecker and bears, but not ordinary diseases.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is what I meant when I said beekeepers as a whole are clueless about the most basic principle of animal husbandry!

Which are
Proper feeding. Providing safe and hygienic shelter. Ensuring proper health and protection against disease

Which is what most actually strive for

 

[Murox]

If you are going to quote you should give your source. There are tens of thousands of mostly US religious writings attempting to undermine Darwin. None of them are worth the paper they are written on.

Oh yes, that snippet was from the BMJ – Professor Campbell
 at the Department of Medical Biochemistry and Immunology, Wales College of Medicine, Cardiff University. As I suggested this arose as a result of medical investigation re Darwins' illnesses, not an attempt to discredit his theories, don't think religion entered into it at all.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Oh yes, that snippet was from the BMJ – Professor Campbell
 at the Department of Medical Biochemistry and Immunology, Wales College of Medicine, Cardiff University. As I suggested this arose as a result of medical investigation re Darwins' illnesses, not an attempt to discredit his theories, don't think religion entered into it at all.

Then how does it apply here?

Guys I'm not going to argue with you or try to educate you. If you want to understand why bee breeding is at the heart of bee health, you'll have to find out why that is yourselves. I've given you enough to get you started.

If you do you will understand that breeding from animals prone to sickness is foolish. You just get offspring prone to sickness.

That is simple enough isnt it?

Now try to apply it to beekeeping. If you find it's not easy (it isn't) that's fine - but it doesn't make it wrong.

Read through what I've said above. It remains true, however hard it is to understand, or apply. Beekeepers have made bees that are dependent on beekeepers (need medicating) just to stay alive.

Meanwhile natural selection for the fittest strains works (successfully in some places) to overcome that dependence.

As beekeepers we either help or hinder that process.

That's it, I'm going to leave you in peace again now.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

which is nice

 

[Beesnaturally]

which is nice

Does one become a 'queen bee' here simply by making lots of posts?

 

[Finman]

Guys I'm not going to argue with you or try to educate you. If you want to understand why bee breeding is at the heart of bee health, you'll have to find out why that is yourselves. I've given you enough to get you started.

I have studied biology and genetics in Helsinki University and I have kept bees 60 years. It is good to meet a real beekeeper in this forum.

I started beebreeding 55 years ago when I bought Caucasian queens from one guy. Caucasian mother queens were sent from Canada.

I really got new knowledge from a natural beekeeper.

 

[Finman]

Does one become a 'queen bee' here simply by making lots of posts?

That is a good observation.
.

 

[researcher8899]

Hi everybody who has commented to this post. My original question about whether disease management is a touchy topic has definitely been answered! Thanks again for everyone's contributions.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi everybody who has commented to this post. My original question about whether disease management is a touchy topic has definitely been answered! Thanks again for everyone's contributions.

Perhaps I should close the thread then?

 

[Finman]

Perhaps I should close the thread then?

This kind of thread encourages blood circulation.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This kind of thread encourages blood circulation.

To the head

 

[Worker bee]

Probably not the best place to ask on a forum. The best thing to do is get out there with beekeepers. All you will get on here is a lot of opinions most regergitated out of date information from books that's a decade old. Nothing from real thinking beekeepers who actually trial old stuff and come up with there own ideas. Most will actively seek out ideas that conflict with the norm to shoot them down. That's just human nature. It's a bit like talking about politics everyone can point out problems but vote for the same parties. Go figure