Questions about managing honeybee diseases

[viridens]

researcher8899
I ask again:
You say "I'm interested in how particular groups of people build relationships with non-human species". Is that your prime focus, or are you genuinely interested in the treatment of bee diseases?

Some interesting debate and differences of opinion in this thread, but I never did get an answer to my question.

 

[pargyle]

Does one become a 'queen bee' here simply by making lots of posts?

Yes ... but the ratings might tell you a slightly different story when you want to know who is giving advice that is appreciated (not necessarily the right advice though ....) but it's an indication.

 

[pargyle]

Probably not the best place to ask on a forum. The best thing to do is get out there with beekeepers. All you will get on here is a lot of opinions most regergitated out of date information from books that's a decade old. Nothing from real thinking beekeepers who actually trial old stuff and come up with there own ideas. Most will actively seek out ideas that conflict with the norm to shoot them down. That's just human nature. It's a bit like talking about politics everyone can point out problems but vote for the same parties. Go figure

I think you are wrong about this forum ...if you stick around for a few years and read all the posts you will find that there are some amazingly creative and forward thinking beekeepers on here. Things you will never see in the books - or anywhere else for that matter are often identified and brought to the fore. The 'old stuff' and 'myths' are regularly challenged and there is enough diversity in the way(s) people manage their bees to give a wide expanse of experience and first hand knowledge.

I don't count myself as having immense experience but I've learned so much more from this forum that has helped me in my beekeeping and more importantly taught me to think about my bees and what is happening rather than beekeeping by rote.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Probably not the best place to ask on a forum. The best thing to do is get out there with beekeepers. All you will get on here is a lot of opinions most regergitated out of date information from books that's a decade old. Nothing from real thinking beekeepers who actually trial old stuff and come up with there own ideas. Most will actively seek out ideas that conflict with the norm to shoot them down. That's just human nature. It's a bit like talking about politics everyone can point out problems but vote for the same parties. Go figure

That's absolutely not true.
You might spend a lifetime "getting out with beekeepers" before you amassed even a scintilla of the knowledge and innovation in these pages. In accusing the members of not being real thinking and regurgitating out of date information I suspect your post has been crafted expertly to inflame and hopefully most people who put a lot of time and effort in supporting the beginners here will ignore it

 

[Finman]

Managing honeybee diseases is managing diseaseses. It is not treating opinions.

There are enough bee disease science and we should know what the disease and how to treat it. But even to skillfull persons things are sometimes difficult.

Lets take Scientific beekeeper Randy Oliver from California. He is not convinced, how oxalic acid trickling works. But however the method has worked in Italy 23 years and in many other European countries 20 years. It works when the colony is broodless. Some guys insist still that it does not work. Not to mention Mr Hivemaker...

But I know that is does not work alone. You must treat the colony before it rears winter bees. And so on...

Sometimes California has 26C yemps in September and Hivemaker has pollen plants in January. No wonder that method does not work.

 

[Wilco]

Probably not the best place to ask on a forum. The best thing to do is get out there with beekeepers. All you will get on here is a lot of opinions most regergitated out of date information from books that's a decade old. Nothing from real thinking beekeepers who actually trial old stuff and come up with there own ideas. Most will actively seek out ideas that conflict with the norm to shoot them down. That's just human nature. It's a bit like talking about politics everyone can point out problems but vote for the same parties. Go figure

Sorry but my experience is 100% the other way around. Whilst there is some old school stuff, this forum has a number of thinking beekeepers who, when out of date or incorrect things are stated, will put you on the right track and from my observations usually 'win'. I have been both corrected and encouraged by people on here and am grateful for it; myths I had been befuddled by were from 'real thinking beekeepers' that are 'out there'. Experimenting is good (e.g. JBM with UFEs) to a point but sometimes the norm is the norm because it's old experimentation which has been shown to work so experimenting with it can be a retrograde move.

 

[Finman]

Sorry but my experience is 100% the other way around. Whilst there is some old school stuff, this forum has a number of thinking beekeepers

You can yourself to read newest researches about diseases. You do not need to argue with old farts. Natural beekeepers is its own race, how they use information in this world.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi everybody who has commented to this post. My original question about whether disease management is a touchy topic has definitely been answered! Thanks again for everyone's contributions.

LOL maybe beekeeping and beekeepers is a difficult group to study human/animal interaction. If you want a more understandable relationship with breeders that aren't averse to culling when they find it necessary I'd suggest Iceland and the horse breeders there might be worth your attention

 

[Moobee]

This is what I meant when I said beekeepers as a whole are clueless about the most basic principle of animal husbandry!

Bit of a sweeping generalisation don’t you think?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bit of a sweeping generalisation don’t you think?

They are not. He’s talking nonsense.

 

[Moobee]

They are not. He’s talking nonsense.

I kept it polite! I’m sure there are a few clueless beeks and those still learning but I haven’t met anyone yet who didn’t want the absolute best for their bees & spent the time and money learning how to.

 

[Moobee]

I think you are wrong about this forum ...if you stick around for a few years and read all the posts you will find that there are some amazingly creative and forward thinking beekeepers on here. Things you will never see in the books - or anywhere else for that matter are often identified and brought to the fore. The 'old stuff' and 'myths' are regularly challenged and there is enough diversity in the way(s) people manage their bees to give a wide expanse of experience and first hand knowledge.

I don't count myself as having immense experience but I've learned so much more from this forum that has helped me in my beekeeping and more importantly taught me to think about my bees and what is happening rather than beekeeping by rote.

Totally agree. I’ve learned more useful information on here than any other source....

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Organisms and their predators (including parasites and disease pathogens) are in a constant 'arms race'. Disease organisms mutate constantly, and the target organisms have to find ways of fighting back. It is never over for any organism.

That answers your question.

That's a very succinct analysis. Mind if I quote it elsewhere?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bit of a sweeping generalisation don’t you think?

Just the usual arrogance of so called 'natural' beekeepers

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just the usual arrogance of so called 'natural' beekeepers

There are a myriad of ways people keep bees. Some work better than others but they all generally do work. Why? Because bees are incredibly adaptable and often thrive despite what we do to them.
I don’t know why people get so arsey about it?
Shook swarming excepted, of course

 

[Beesnaturally]

Yes ... but the ratings might tell you a slightly different story when you want to know who is giving advice that is appreciated (not necessarily the right advice though ....) but it's an indication.

I thought so. Thanks.

 

[Beesnaturally]

That's a very succinct analysis. Mind if I quote it elsewhere?

Of course not. Its not my original idea, but I claim the phrasing

 

[Beesnaturally]

They are not. He’s talking nonsense.

That's me? What does that tell us all about you?

 

[Beesnaturally]

Managing honeybee diseases is managing diseaseses. It is not treating opinions.

There are enough bee disease science and we should know what the disease and how to treat it. But even to skillfull persons things are sometimes difficult.

Lets take Scientific beekeeper Randy Oliver from California. He is not convinced, how oxalic acid trickling works. But however the method has worked in Italy 23 years and in many other European countries 20 years. It works when the colony is broodless. Some guys insist still that it does not work. Not to mention Mr Hivemaker...

But I know that is does not work alone. You must treat the colony before it rears winter bees. And so on...

Sometimes California has 26C yemps in September and Hivemaker has pollen plants in January. No wonder that method does not work.

I haven't treated or manipulated my 70 ish hives in _any way_ for 10 years. Some have survived all that time, properly succeeding their queens, managing varroa on their own, and giving great crops.

If you stopped treating your colonies would almost certainly perish in a year or two.

What is the difference between your bees and mine?

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's me? What does that tell us all about you?

I don’t know? Perhaps I’m right?