Oxalic Acid vaporizer

[fred scuttle]

Quick question..... What about any fondant on the hives when OA sublimation... Does that need to be removed or will it still be fit for purpose when covered with OA dust following treatment? Probably over thinking this but hey just thought I'd ask...

 

[Hivemaker.]

Will be okay, Fred.

 

[pargyle]

Quick question..... What about any fondant on the hives when OA sublimation... Does that need to be removed or will it still be fit for purpose when covered with OA dust following treatment? Probably over thinking this but hey just thought I'd ask...

Will be okay, Fred.

Good question .. Good reply .. Thanks both of you.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I remember the incident of a fairly substantial file (with a bare tang) thrown diagonally across the class room, spinning as it went! Certainly not an accident. I also recall a beaker of (hot?) caustic soda solution being thrown across a laboratory and smashing on the far wall, in the same school. Clearly not an accident either. Some schools are a dangerous environment, even without accidents.

We dam near blew up a substitute teacher with aluminium and sulphur powders. The fule was just about to go with the pestle and mortar on our say-so leaving us looking desperately for an exit strategy (he was not bluffing) when the main man came in and threw the lot out of the window. Poor young man; I still feel guilty. ADD (Not the teacher, to be clear; he went to the office...)

 

[oliver90owner]

You mean similar to making black powder in a steel mortar with a steel pestle?

I remember getting some reloader powder bushes made up in different sizes. Specified aluminium or brass, but they were made in steel. He got it right second time of making!

 

[Newtobees]

Well having some time spare today i thought I would use my new varrox on two poly nuc's I have in the garden. First problem how to get a good seal round the bottom of the nuc's to stop vapour leaking away.
This was solved by getting an old quilt cover rolling it up into a long snake then laying it on the floor the same shape as the nuc . Hive placed on top creating a sealed space underneath to slide the Varrox in Bobs your uncle or so I thought, 1 gram oxalic crystals placed in varrox slide in tuck ends round to make good seal connect to battery wait a couple of minutes and have a look through clear crown board. No vapour in hive on checking wire mesh under hive to see if it was all blocked with debris and not letting vapour to go through I noticed all of the oxalic acid had crystallised onto the mesh. Has anyone else had this problem the varrox was about 1cm below the mesh thinking I'm now going to have the same problem when I do my full sized poly hives with a jig I have made up to slide in under the mesh.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well having some time spare today i thought I would use my new varrox on two poly nuc's I have in the garden. First problem how to get a good seal round the bottom of the nuc's to stop vapour leaking away.
This was solved by getting an old quilt cover rolling it up into a long snake then laying it on the floor the same shape as the nuc . Hive placed on top creating a sealed space underneath to slide the Varrox in Bobs your uncle or so I thought, 1 gram oxalic crystals placed in varrox slide in tuck ends round to make good seal connect to battery wait a couple of minutes and have a look through clear crown board. No vapour in hive on checking wire mesh under hive to see if it was all blocked with debris and not letting vapour to go through I noticed all of the oxalic acid had crystallised onto the mesh. Has anyone else had this problem the varrox was about 1cm below the mess thinking I'm now going to have the same problem when I do my full sized poly hives with a jig I have made up to slide in under the mesh.

I always get oxalic deposited on the mesh.....sometimes quite a bit but there has always been vapour in the hive. You could try putting a matchstick under one corner of the crown board till you see fumes.....

 

[Millet]

I don't have a clear crown board and i don't open the hive up when i have gassed it which will have been around 5/6 treatments upto date, i do however know the vapor has hit the spot by the noise the bees make once it starts vaporizing (think of a chainsaw reving) .
Like Erica i also have a build up on the mesh but i always put extra in the vaporizer for good measure.
I'm new to all this by the way so take my experiences with a pinch of salt.

 

[JWF]

My bees don't really seem all that bothered when they get vaped. There's a small amount of clustering around the entrance (50 bees max) which soon go back in. Definitely no roaring or any other signs of agitation.

I get some deposit on the mesh floor, as I put the sublimator between the inspection tray and the mesh, but its clear that plenty of OA gets up into the hive.

How long do you leave the sublimator switched on for Millet?

 

[Millet]

My bees don't really seem all that bothered when they get vaped. There's a small amount of clustering around the entrance (50 bees max) which soon go back in. Definitely no roaring or any other signs of agitation.

I get some deposit on the mesh floor, as I put the sublimator between the inspection tray and the mesh, but its clear that plenty of OA gets up into the hive.

How long do you leave the sublimator switched on for Millet?

Usually just over the 2 min mark, but sometimes i get carried away and leave it going for around 20min's i can get through a wheel barrow full of oxalic acid pretty quick, but roasted bees do taste nice..

 

[Erichalfbee]

How long do you leave the sublimator switched on for

It depends on how much Oxalic is in the vaporiser. What I did was run the thing outside. I settled on 3.5 minutes for 3g and 3 minutes for 2g

 

[oliver90owner]

Newtobees,

Think here - like a boiling kettle. Water vapour is invisible as it exits the spout. It will condense back to water if something very cold is shoved in front of the spout. After a few cm the invisible vapour condenses to steam, which is water droplets.

Apply to sublimation and think that once back to solid (visible) it will no longer stick to your floor as much, but pass through with the hot air current.

Adjust your system accordingly.

 

[JWF]

It depends on how much Oxalic is in the vaporiser. What I did was run the thing outside. I settled on 3.5 minutes for 3g and 3 minutes for 2g

That very close to what I do.

I can't understand why Millet's bees make a roaring sound, unless the dose of OA is much greater.

 

[wessexmario]

Hives do react differently,
two of mine can be done without blocking up the entrance, one or two come out but no bother either during or after.
my more aggressive hive will come flooding out in force if the entrance block isn't put in, and even on a damp day and some minutes after, will pour out once the block is removed. I always do that one last! .

 

[Millet]

That very close to what I do.

I can't understand why Millet's bees make a roaring sound, unless the dose of OA is much greater.

I would think the bees are roaring when gassed to try and fan the vapours away from them, around 1.5g is the amount i use.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It depends on how much Oxalic is in the vaporiser. What I did was run the thing outside. I settled on 3.5 minutes for 3g and 3 minutes for 2g

I timed it in the open last year (taking extra precautions of course - handkerchief folded in a triangle tied across nose and mouth as well as beard held between lips and unwaxed ends of moustache stuffed up nostrils) and 2.5 minutes was ample for 2.5 grams - you have to consider as well that in the two minutes waiting period after switching off the pan is still hot enough to sublimate up until the end (probably why that was specified)

I can't understand why Millet's bees make a roaring sound, unless the dose of OA is much greater.

I do - there is definitely a rise in noise levels maybe not a full blown 'roar' but a distinct and discernible loud fanning. I can't say it's the case every time but I've noticed it in over 150 vapings. And I can assure you the doses were no more than 2.2 grams
You must also consider that, to follow the correct procedure the entrance should be blocked to keep as many bees as possible in so, not having their usual air circulation they would have to work harder at an alternative

 

[Erichalfbee]

I timed it in the open last year (taking extra precautions of course - handkerchief folded in a triangle tied across nose and mouth as well as beard held between lips and unwaxed ends of moustache stuffed up nostrils) and 2.5 minutes was ample for 2.5 grams - you have to consider as well that in the two minutes waiting period after switching off the pan is still hot enough to sublimate up until the end (probably why that was specified)

Have I missed something?
I always take the vaporiser as soon as my timer goes. Are you supposed to leave it in for 2 minutes after?
I've never bothered. Timer on, timer off, out, dunk in cold water and on to the next.

 

[Newtobees]

Well after reading everyone's replies especially oliver90owner as usual very informative and common sense reply i decided to use a spare empty poly nuc and experiment with the hight the varrox is placed from the mesh floor.
1. varrox 1 inch from mesh 1 gram of oxalic acid burn time 2 mins lots of crystallisation on mesh floor.
2. Varrox 2 inch from mesh 1 gram of oxalic acid burn time 2 mins lots of vapour in hive and a lot less crystallisation on mesh floor.
3. Varrox 3 inch from mesh floor 1 gram of oxalic acid burn time 2 mins lots of vapour in hive and left with very little crystallisation on mesh floor.
4. varrox 3 inch from mesh floor 3 gram of oxalic acid burn time 3 mins lots of vapour in hive with no more crystallisation on mesh floor then with 1 gram of oxalic acid.
With these very basic tests it seems that about 3 inch from mesh floor is optimal.

 

[Millet]

Well after reading everyone's replies especially oliver90owner as usual very informative and common sense reply i decided to use a spare empty poly nuc and experiment with the hight the varrox is placed from the mesh floor.
1. varrox 1 inch from mesh 1 gram of oxalic acid burn time 2 mins lots of crystallisation on mesh floor.
2. Varrox 2 inch from mesh 1 gram of oxalic acid burn time 2 mins lots of vapour in hive and a lot less crystallisation on mesh floor.
3. Varrox 3 inch from mesh floor 1 gram of oxalic acid burn time 2 mins lots of vapour in hive and left with very little crystallisation on mesh floor.
4. varrox 3 inch from mesh floor 3 gram of oxalic acid burn time 3 mins lots of vapour in hive with no more crystallisation on mesh floor then with 1 gram of oxalic acid.
With these very basic tests it seems that about 3 inch from mesh floor is optimal.

Thats me cream crackered then as i only have a gap of less than 1in below the mesh floor and inspection board.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Have I missed something?
I always take the vaporiser as soon as my timer goes. Are you supposed to leave it in for 2 minutes after?
I've never bothered. Timer on, timer off, out, dunk in cold water and on to the next.

Yes - the instructions advise varox connected for 2.5 minutes (that's for their recommendation of 2g) then switch off and leave for another 2 minutes. entrance(s) closed for the whole of this time and for ten minutes after.
If nothing else - this at least takes some strain off your battery