oxalic acid - Vap or Trickle

[JamezF]

Do we check or assume?

If you mean check that they're broodless or assume they are, ideally check. Perhaps using the crumbs from cell cappings on the varroa board as a proxy rather than breaking the colony open. The situation seems fraught with compromise though: some colonies may never be broodless, others may be broodless at (say) the start of November whilst others won't be until the end and perhaps some not until Christmas, yet the impression I have is that it's preferable by far to treat all colonies in the same apiary (and even all those in the same area) at the same time.

James

 

[Nick Lang]

I haven't tried the trickle method.....but have recently bought a gasvap which I have found works well......I also used a pan/wand with a battery but I found messing around with the battery was a PITA!....then again...I was dragging around my enormous 4x4 battery The gasvap worked quite well.....it does require a bit of fiddling to get a good constant burst of vapour...but once you get the hang it works really well. Efficacy was kinda monitored in an ad-hoc way....really by looking at mite drop following each vape treatment

 

[Goran]

Majority at my place is using trickling. I never was in contact with someone that use vaping, so I can't say anything about it. Crucial for both is as we learned that they have to be broodles. Also we learned that: tight cluster - trickle, loose cluster vaping. Before we had broodless period from October, nowadays thanks to climate changes, to be certain I trickle in December.
about trickling - there is cheap veterinary automatic syringe with 5ml dosage and in couple seconds is job done..

 

[Ian123]

Do we check or assume?

Nowadays I think you can safely assume with a little common sense and yes if you have mesh floors debris may indicate what’s going on to a degree. I would add when I first started using oxalic there was scant info available and quite frankly it’s use was not openly discussed. In fact the overwhelming response was you’d kill the bees if you opened a hive in Winter. If done sensibly we now know that’s nonsense.
A friend over a couple of seasons ran 6 or so hives with thermometers in and found larger hives coming into lay mid to late Jan. I stick to the Xmas period for oxalic as that’s my ideal window the majority of years.There does appear to be a recent trend for people to start doing it as early as possible I’m not sure why. A month ago I posted a clip of nucs with BIAS even if they stopped laying shortly after inspection these would only just be broodless! Nucs I think due to cluster size/warmth will shut down faster and start a little later. This season many of my wooden nucs had BIAS second week in feb whist the polys looked a week behind on average.
When I fist started oxalic use the original instructions said cut any small patches of brood out if you found any. So you did indeed pull a couple of central frames to check. After checking the first dozen and finding no brood it’s really not worth checking any more.

 

[Anduril]

Has anyone ever torn a clustered colony apart midwinter to see if they actually  are broodless?

Just asking.

Albeit cynically....

There was this video

 

[user 20297]

There was this video

That is so clear and definitive....excellent.

 

[Amari]

That is so clear and definitive....excellent.

As we forumites all know, there is rarely only one correct way to perform a beekeeping task.
- I do not and would not open my hives in winter to check for brood before vaping.
- I put the OA into a cold pan, insert into the hive, then attach the battery clips - adds a minute or so to the procedure but surely safer than putting crystals into a hot pan as the vid seems to advise. In that minute I withdraw several yards upwind so do not wear a mask.
- I don't bother to close the hive entrance - it's good to see a little vapour escape -shows the pan is heating.

 

[user 20297]

As we forumites all know, there is rarely only one correct way to perform a beekeeping task.
- I do not and would not open my hives in winter to check for brood before vaping.
- I put the OA into a cold pan, insert into the hive, then attach the battery clips - adds a minute or so to the procedure but surely safer than putting crystals into a hot pan as the vid seems to advise. In that minute I withdraw several yards upwind so do not wear a mask.
- I don't bother to close the hive entrance - it's good to see a little vapour escape -shows the pan is heating.

.....so clear and definitive....excellent.

 

[Anduril]

That is so clear and definitive....excellent.

It is too invasive and destructive.

 

[user 20297]

It is too invasive and destructive.

That it is invasive and destructive is so obvious that you didn't need to make such a comment when you posted the link to the video.
But the video is clear and definitive and I found it very interesting, so thank you.

 

[Ian123]

- I do not and would not open my hives in winter to check for brood before vaping.

Because you are lucky enough and have the luxury to be able to rely on those that have done and provide you with the best periods to do it? You are also lucky enough to now have the equipment to vape as opposed to trickle and no choice but to open the hive as in the good old days. As to invasive all beekeeping inspections are invasive! do you inspect your hives is that not invasive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As we forumites all know, there is rarely only one correct way to perform a beekeeping task.
- I do not and would not open my hives in winter to check for brood before vaping.
- I put the OA into a cold pan, insert into the hive, then attach the battery clips - adds a minute or so to the procedure but surely safer than putting crystals into a hot pan as the vid seems to advise. In that minute I withdraw several yards upwind so do not wear a mask.
- I don't bother to close the hive entrance - it's good to see a little vapour escape -shows the pan is heating.

I always put the OA in a cold pan (dunking it in cold water between hives) and I've found that 2.5 minutes connected to the battery then a period of a further 2 minutes unconnected is ample for all the crystals to sublimate - even with as much as 3g in the pan.
never close the entrances either.

 

[Michael Palmer]

never close the entrances either.

I don't vape but wondering why.

 

[The Poot]

Seems like perfect conditions to open the hives and douse the bees in a cold oxalic solution…..

 

[Erichalfbee]

-7.5 here
Warming up, though.
Tuesday looks a good day to get the swarm off the potting shed roof

 

[blackcloud]

Same latitude but temps 1c lower throughout

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't vape but wondering why.

a pointless exercise, the majority of the sublimate rises anyway then on desublimation falls all over the bees and comb.
I think that maybe the original idea of closing the entrance had little to do with shutting in the sublimate but had more to do, as the iron was introduced through the entrance, with stopping returning forager bees flying in and getting fried on the pan. I vape from below the OMF, but even when I have a few solid floors at an apiary and have to introduce the pan via the entrance I never had an issue with not blocking it, and very little sublimate escaped

 

[Amari]

You are also lucky enough to now have the equipment to vape as opposed to trickle

Funded by honey sales.

 

[JamezF]

View attachment 34684

Seems like perfect conditions to open the hives and douse the bees in a cold oxalic solution…..

Hmmm. I can't do temperatures in old money. ( 23.8 - 32 ) * 5 / 9 = -4.5°C. About the same as it was here at around the same time this morning. The Sun is shining, but I'm really not sure it's going to get above freezing today. I have stuff to do outside, but I think mostly I'll be staying indoors...

James

 

[Ian123]

View attachment 34684

Seems like perfect conditions to open the hives and douse the bees in a cold oxalic solution…..

Then your doing it wrong, best applied warm think it helps with the take up