Oh No! Not Matchsticks Again?

[user 6228]

I wish that were true. UK builders weirdly like all the lofts to be "properly ventilated" so even our new homes are about as efficient as German homes from the 1970s. As soon as I can afford it I'm getting a Passivhaus built. Airtight with controlled ventilation, bugger all cost to heat/cool, and no draughts.

THis is the cold roof principle. You insulate and seal at the ceiling level and ventilate above. This prevents heat loss and slows migration of vaour into the roof space, importantly it prevents condensation on the roof structure.
The warm roof principle is to have a total vapour barrier, and insulation and then the final water proof skin all above the roof structure.
Both work, but not when done badly.

 

[Antipodes]

Are the vents in your commercial hives in any way for the purpose of moving them? Vents here in migratory lids are for moving the hive, but I never rely on them and many of my lids don't have any vents or are blocked so I use travel screens and other arrangements depending on the size of the colony and weather. I took this photo today and this shows what can happen if a colony (not mine thankfully) overheats with moving. I'd say nearly the whole lot died by the look of it.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have a little pocket ot the top of the right hand pocket of my Levi jeans, designed for the wearer to have a safe place to keep his fob watch apparently. I've never felt compelled to get my great grandfather's pocket watch out of the safe, wind it up and use it whenever I wear them though.

There was me thinking that little pocket was for keeping condoms in! It used to get a lot of use when I was a teenager....... but that was more wishful thinking than anything else

 

[Curly green finger's]

No, but I can't imagine trying to learn beekeeping without books.

Or even with just a mentor for that matter your comment, there's so many different books out there young and old some go on about the same things.
Read books, practical experience even on your own and have your mentorees ear on but let most of it filter through, taking what you need and want to use for the benefit of yourself and girls.

Talking about being a mentor.. A mentoree asked me how long before you can read your bees, my reply was give them a book of the Haynes manual and see how you get on..
My point was they don't read our English literature, they have there own, and will always do what they want to do, however compatant we think we are.
Waffle waffle!

 

[ericbeaumont]

When will people realise.. the 'bottom board' as they call it is an INSPECTION board.. just that. pop in, leave 3 days, inspect and remove!!

Not quite.

The book of 500 tips was written for the American market where a floor is called a bottom board and where a screened bottom board is fitted with a tray or drawer.

Writer was Jim Tew, an eminent American entomologist and beekeeping lecturer and as BKP pointed out, on occasion even the best of us mix in a bit of toot with the treasure.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Yes, the smaller winter entrance is more than sufficient (whatever the season)

Yes, I've tried it and found that to be the case.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I think certainty is over rated. It's what you get when people walk away from rational discussion. And, though I'm not a scientist by any measure, I believe it has no place in a scientific method.

Forgive me if I say that the conversation on upper ventilation and matchsticks here sometimes sounds a bit like a test of club membership. I mean, how many here are actually speaking about their own findings and experiences?

 

[Murox]

I think certainty is over rated. It's what you get when people walk away from rational discussion. And, though I'm not a scientist by any measure, I believe it has no place in a scientific method.

Forgive me if I say that the conversation on upper ventilation and matchsticks here sometimes sounds a bit like a test of club membership. I mean, how many here are actually speaking about their own findings and experiences?

Not me, I've never used matchsticks in beekeeping at all except for pinning/suspending a queen cage in place. I do use small holes/entrances the whole year round though and they are not right at the bottom of the hive either.

 

[user 6228]

I think certainty is over rated. It's what you get when people walk away from rational discussion. And, though I'm not a scientist by any measure, I believe it has no place in a scientific method.

Forgive me if I say that the conversation on upper ventilation and matchsticks here sometimes sounds a bit like a test of club membership. I mean, how many here are actually speaking about their own findings and experiences?

I am.

 

[Into the lions den]

I agree that the article is nonsense though, though plainly, a slab of fondant above the bees isn't as good as honey in the frames, for wintering bees.

Plainly a lot of people do exactly as you describe....and in the past ourselves. Plainly in a huge outfit dedicated boxes are an impossible task...you would need millions in surplus investment and a shed the size of a football field to hold the segregated stacks for every colony. In our case we have the business compartmentalised so they get boxes from within their unit, not from anywhere in the business.

However.......the moving of honey IS a risk...as is using combs that have been on other hives.......even if in many cases a minor and calculated one. It is a bigger risk than matchsticks under the cover boards.

But this is just extra info....the bit I am actually following up on is the bit I quote above.

There is actually quite extensive research showing that honey is actually close to being the worst of the commonly available foods for bees..even the colony's own honey. In winter the bees do best on pure energy food...all the extras are not required. Fondant has none of these extras and the bees can eat it without any indigestibles or other waste products filling the gut.

Sounds counterintuitive and contradicts a lot of traditionalist teaching but really..in winter all they need is the 'heating on'...so other contents of natural stores are just coincidental inclusions of little benefit.

So you should all save your money in winter that a lot are spending on fancy protein enhanced products ... they will do better on plain fondant..and less risk of them needing to fly early to defecate....and the associated risks from that if we get a prolonged cold spell.

 

[Apple]

I am.

And has written books..papers etc etc!

Only problem with books is... I find when I loan them out ... they don't always come back!

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Only problem with books is... I find when I loan them out ... they don't always come back!

I saw a little card on a bookcase once. It said: I don't lend my books to my friends. I don't want to lose my books... or my friends.

 

[Apple]

Plainly a lot of people do exactly as you describe....and in the past ourselves. Plainly in a huge outfit dedicated boxes are an impossible task...you would need millions in surplus investment and a shed the size of a football field to hold the segregated stacks for every colony. In our case we have the business compartmentalised so they get boxes from within their unit, not from anywhere in the business.

However.......the moving of honey IS a risk...as is using combs that have been on other hives.......even if in many cases a minor and calculated one. It is a bigger risk than matchsticks under the cover boards.

But this is just extra info....the bit I am actually following up on is the bit I quote above.

There is actually quite extensive research showing that honey is actually close to being the worst of the commonly available foods for bees..even the colony's own honey. In winter the bees do best on pure energy food...all the extras are not required. Fondant has none of these extras and the bees can eat it without any indigestibles or other waste products filling the gut.

Sounds counterintuitive and contradicts a lot of traditionalist teaching but really..in winter all they need is the 'heating on'...so other contents of natural stores are just coincidental inclusions of little benefit.

So you should all save your money in winter that a lot are spending on fancy protein enhanced products ... they will do better on plain fondant..and less risk of them needing to fly early to defecate....and the associated risks from that if we get a prolonged cold spell.

Could it bee that the comments are from hobby beekeepers with <4 colonies, not >4000 ?
No brainer IMHO to keep "boxes" at least to apiary sites if not to colony.
Label all of ours.... may soon need that football pitch sized shed!

Chons da

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I am.

And has written books..papers etc etc!

Not for the first time, I wish we used real names in this forum.
Archie McLellan

 

[Boston Bees]

But this is just extra info....the bit I am actually following up on is the bit I quote above.

There is actually quite extensive research showing that honey is actually close to being the worst of the commonly available foods for bees..even the colony's own honey. In winter the bees do best on pure energy food...all the extras are not required. Fondant has none of these extras and the bees can eat it without any indigestibles or other waste products filling the gut.

Sounds counterintuitive and contradicts a lot of traditionalist teaching but really..in winter all they need is the 'heating on'...so other contents of natural stores are just coincidental inclusions of little benefit.

So you should all save your money in winter that a lot are spending on fancy protein enhanced products ... they will do better on plain fondant..and less risk of them needing to fly early to defecate....and the associated risks from that if we get a prolonged cold spell.

Thanks for the detailed reply

But you are actually slightly misunderstanding what I meant.

I said that "a slab of fondant above the bees isn't as good as honey in the frames, for wintering bees". Perhaps I should have corrected that to be "a slab of fondant above the bees isn't as good as food in the frames, for wintering bees"

I didn't mean that fondant isn't as good as honey as a winter food for bees. It may or may not be - personally I suspect it is just as good, but I am not a scientist. I personally feed tons of the stuff - just bog standard bakers fondant, with no additives, as you say.

What I meant was, if feeding fondant, it is necessary/ideal to feed it early enough for the bees to take it down and store it in the frames before winter really sets in. If a beekeeper were to rely only on a block of fondant above the cluster, without any food in the frames - perhaps because they took the honey supers off really late (as I have known a neighbour to do) then they will make life much harder for their bees, and may lose them to starvation. A block of fondant above their heads is good too, and I always have one on, but food in the frames is best.

 

[ericbeaumont]

There is actually quite extensive research showing that honey is actually close to being the worst of the commonly available foods for bees... In winter the bees do best on pure energy food...all the extras are not required.

I like it, and have said the same to customers for years; naturally they're surprised by the contradiction, but it's usually the sweet sort who want to save every bee and don't want a rosy view disturbed.

 

[Ian123]

I like it, and have said the same to customers for years; naturally they're surprised by the contradiction, but it's usually the sweet sort who want to save every bee and don't want a rosy view disturbed.

Lol yes there’s quite a few of the I love my bees so much I leave them honey for the winter brigade.

 

[pargyle]

Lol yes there’s quite a few of the I love my bees so much I leave them honey for the winter brigade.

I leave my bees the honey they store in the brood boxes (14 x 12) and mostly it is enough to see them through winter, I will top them up if they don't seem to have enough stored. I don't know if it is better for them to overwinter on honey instead of sugar ... but my philosophy is that the bees are usually better off doing what they do and they store honey to survive over winter. Who am I to argue with them ?

 

[Ian123]

Who am I to argue with them ?

No arguments here I run mine on dbl broods during the season but most over winter in single boxes. The research Murray mentioned or at least some has been around for years, but more to the point syrup will do no harm.

 

[gmonag]

Lol yes there’s quite a few of the I love my bees so much I leave them honey for the winter brigade.

Or perhaps, lets do what the bees have done for 40 million years brigade.