OA treatment - when?

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when are you giving your OA treatment


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My losses are zero RAB without any treatments what so ever, all colonies going hell for leather at the moment, catkins and goat willow... oh, and of course the trays of wax capping from last year, (nearly finished now).

Bizarre eh? No treatments, no losses, makes you think.

Maybe not.

Chris
Time will tell ! If your bees are carrying a high mite load , the resultant breeding explosion when the Queens start laying will be the time when untreated colonies will begin to fail!

John Wilkinson
 
Same old song, same old tune, same old singer....

Just what is your problem with the fact that my bees happily survive without treatment? Has it ever occurred to you that all this so called problem with bees is just a tad hyped up?

Chris
 
Chris

Do you run small cell, the normal foundation. Or do you let them draw what they want and how many years have you been everything free?

At the moment I am only using oxalic acid but would like to get rid of this too.

I would be very interested to know as I am heading in this direction.

Thank you.

Onge
 
Only used it for two years, out of the 19 years we have had varroa,and those were the two worst years for the bee's i have ever had.
 
Only used it for two years, out of the 19 years we have had varroa,and those were the two worst years for the bee's i have ever had.

Hello Pete, Chris maintains his bees are thriving with no treatments what so ever ?

John W.
 
My losses are zero RAB without any treatments what so ever, all colonies going hell for leather at the moment, catkins and goat willow... oh, and of course the trays of wax capping from last year, (nearly finished now).

Bizarre eh? No treatments, no losses, makes you think.

Maybe not.

Chris

Hey! Great! All we have to do is stop treating and varroa will go away!

Brilliant! :party:

Seriously. As a total novice I wouldnt deign to tell you what is wrong with your theory, and I'm happy for you that you have so far escaped unscathed, but suggesting that its all been a "hyped up" bad dream is somewhat bizzare. The usefullness or otherwise of Oxalic treatment does seem to have reasoned arguments on both sides, which us novices ,ake our own decisions on. Doing nothing though just seems to have been proven to be a bad tactic too many times.
 
Kazmcc,
I take it that your mentor did not use OA on his colonies and also intends to use Hive Clean himself, or hasn't this been made clear?

Forgive my cynical streak, but some of the treatments of late have been getting celebrity acclaim, almost before they were in regular use. Seemingly before use at times, just as the manufacturers would have us believe.

Every new version of the Microsoft Windows is hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread, ever. Usually before the public have had proper time to get to grips with it. The truth though is occasionally not quite the same. If both XP and Vista were as advertised, then why all the hurry to kill them off you ask? Well, because not unlike other suppliers, the intention isn't to give us their best deal, it's to have us make a new purchase.
 
Kazmcc,
I take it that your mentor did not use OA on his colonies and also intends to use Hive Clean himself, or hasn't this been made clear?

Forgive my cynical streak, but some of the treatments of late have been getting celebrity acclaim, almost before they were in regular use. Seemingly before use at times, just as the manufacturers would have us believe.

Every new version of the Microsoft Windows is hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread, ever. Usually before the public have had proper time to get to grips with it. The truth though is occasionally not quite the same. If both XP and Vista were as advertised, then why all the hurry to kill them off you ask? Well, because not unlike other suppliers, the intention isn't to give us their best deal, it's to have us make a new purchase.

I know what you mean Hombre, I seem to remember him saying he'd been using this stuff with his bees, and others as he mentors a lot of hives in Manchester. I would have rather used OA if it was my decision, only because it is widely used and I don't know enough about bees yet or varroa to change from the norm. Saying that though, I trust him and his knowledge of bees, and he is a brilliant mentor, so if he says we are using this stuff, then who am I to argue? He's seen us through this far, and I wouldn't be so rude as to argue about it. Like I said though, I will reserve judgement and see. After this year the decision will be mine and if I don't like what I see I can always change. It's difficult for us beginners to question an experienced mentor. That doesn't mean I don't question him lol, and he's very impressed with what I've been picking up from the forum, but the decisions on what we do this year lie with him.
 
Only used it for two years, out of the 19 years we have had varroa,and those were the two worst years for the bee's i have ever had.

Hivemaker sorry if you have posted this else where ( I have looked but could find it) but I interested in the treatment you use to control varroa/ norsema I have read a little bit about the use of essential oils such as lemon grass spearmint and thyme. I have read you posts on using thymol in syrup but was hoping you would post what you treat when and why. Regards Andrew
 
I can understand that due deference and proper respect is required in such a relationship and good that sometimes difficult questions are appreciated, which is always a good sign.

My concern was that there have been a lot of new products in the last two years and a lot of people seem to swear by them. At times the same people are newbees that are not aware that a product has not had a prior history of use beyond the manufacturers claims.

The other aspect is that there is often significant cost, over and above the generic product of course.

The question of cost is not without significance as operations scale up and the claimed benefits over and above the generic product have to be put in the financial balance for scrutiny. Application time starts to become significant at some stage too.

My personal test seems to centre around the question, would it be practical for a bee farmer? And no I have no particular pretensions in that direction . . . LoL. It just wouldn't be practical even if I wanted to scale up massivly.

I look forward to the point where it becomes obvious that you are giving more advice than you are asking for. Nice to follow your development as your confidence with the bees grows along with your accumulation of knowledge.
 
Thanks Hombre. I must admit, I would rather have gone along with what everyone else is using, just until I have gained my own experience. We'll see how it goes. I will keep everyone informed no doubt. I wanted to do a mite count before hand, but fell ill again, not as severely as before but it has kept me from them. Is there any other way I could keep track of how this product is working, and would a regular mite count be worth noting?
 
OK, catch up time.

Do you run small cell, the normal foundation. Or do you let them draw what they want and how many years have you been everything free?

I use a variety of methods Onze from standard foundation, (produced locally - association) to top bars with fine wax starter strips, (TBH and Warré). I also use a similar system in some Dadants, normal wired frames with no foundation and a thin wax starter strip, the bees build it in as you would expect. I realise that for people that like to pull their, (frame), hives apart on a regular basis this isn't really an option as it get's a bit messy, but if, as in my case, I only want to pull frames out from time to time to reorganise and free up space or perhaps move to a "clean" hive it's perfect. This has worked since 2002.

Hello Pete, Chris maintains his bees are thriving with no treatments what so ever ?

That is correct JW.

So you dont realy know how long they last, as you are not a beekeeper, just a keeper of bees

That is a somewhat childish remark jimbeekeeper for a serious subject. What gives you the right to determine what constitutes a Bee keeper? I know exactly how long "they last" because they are on my land and the swarms, 90%+ at any rate, are captured and found homes.

Best of luck to him John......amazing where those ley lines can just plonk themselves.

Thanks for the "best of luck" Hivemaker, but again another childish, sad and unnecessary sarcastic swipe.

I would never give myself the self importance or have the arrogance to take it upon myself to tell other people how to manage either their lives or their bees, I do however know from experience that things are rarely as they appear. It is often the case that people have an agenda, either financial or perhaps self-agrandissment and that, IMO we all need to be careful not to mindlessly take on board the dogma of what is becoming an "established religion".

I am in the fortunate position of having plenty of land, (my garden), where I can keep my bees. I'm not restricted to having two or three colonies and "worrying" over them, in fact it must be quite hard to have one colony. So, I could loose 10,20 or 30 % and it wouldn't really matter.

Another point is that it must be quite natural for bee colonies to fail and die, just like everything else in the natural world. If they didn't we would be buried in bee colonies. Even if we assumed that in normal conditions only 70% of swarms found a new home and only 80% of existing colonies following swarming managed to raise a fertilised Queen, that would still give a year on year compound increase, so logically some bee colonies must fail for one reason or another.

Finally for now, (although I'm sure I will say it again sometime), is there any chance that members of this forum, (not all I know), could try to be a bit more serious and stop trying to mock anyone that has an approach that differs from theirs and more importantly does actually work?

It does you no good to try to take the urine....you wouldn't do it face to face.

....ahh, that's another thing, I frequently urinate outside, (saves water), and my dogs do the same, usually in the same places. Now we all probably know that bees and other insects love it. The bees will be found every day at my place, weather permitting, sucking it up, ground covered in them...perhaps another piece of the jigsaw? Just wondering, does anyone mix urine in their bee feed?

Chris
 
Just wondering, does anyone mix urine in their bee feed?


Nope.:svengo:
But human urine is great to improve breakdown in compost heaps.. and for deterring foxes. We have a fox den in the field behind our garden and they regularly visit us at night looking for a tasty quail or a turkey!
 
Wouldn't the urine then be mixed in with the honey? Yuckidy :eek:
 
Certainly when supping the runoff from a steaming pile of horse muck, the bees are taking the mineral salts.

Bees are not well known for taking the p1ss . . . unlike myself of course. :)
 
Last edited:
I haven't looked at this thread for a while but in returning I see I have missed a bit of a scrap.

I don't doubt Chris Luck's account of his beekeeping but I suspect his methods are not for everyone, least of all people like me who live in a town surrounded by neighbours. It is well understood that regular swarming from a hive keeps varroa in check due to the break in brood rearing. I guess this is the key to his success but people round here don't thank me for swarms so I try and avoid them.

On the question of bees resistant or tolerant to varroa, at a talk given by Ron Hoskins on Saturday he admitted that in summer his average daily mite drop is about about 12 mites. This is a lot more than most people would accept as tolerable. I was also intrigued to hear him say he has not treated his bees since 2009 - which is odd as when I first heard him speak about 5 years ago he said then that he hadn't treated for a couple of years. So I am wondering just exactly what the state of his project is - it seems to have been going for a while but he hasn't made the desired breakthrough yet I fear.

However, when we can keep bees without chemicals I will be well pleased but nothing I hear suggests the magic bullet has been discovered yet.
 
Thanks for answering my question about what type of foundation and how long they have been treatment free.

Cheers Chris.
 

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