mk2 wasp traps blue peter version

[kazmcc]

As a novice have learnt a great deal from this thread, the two home made wasp traps will end up in the skip tonight, the wasp bane will be replenished tomorrow (both are full with wasps)
one positioned on roof of hive the other placed between two other hives
Thanks for the great info:

Pop his name into the search bar and see if you can find some of his other posts. There is one thread in particular where he explains the wasp's life cycle, and how they hunt, which is very informative

 

[Karol]

But if I understand Karol correctly it is not about the amount you trap is about how many escape and reducing the local population.

That's true but that's not to say that the traps can't catch lots of wasps. If you have an established wasp problem then the traps will catch as many wasps as there are provided that competing food sources have been removed or made less accessible.

Wasps have a very specific modus operandi when they sweet feed. The scouts find food and report it back to their colleagues at which point they start swarm feeding which is basically a form of team work whereby as a 'swarm' they work collectively to defend the food source from other wasps which represent their main source of competition. Wasps are highly efficient insects and they don't waste energy lightly which means that when they find a food source they will navigate back to the same exact spot each time, i.e. they get programmed to it. So if you have competing food sources around the hive you will have pockets of wasps that will be programme feeding to those sources to the exclusion of all other sources. In effect, the competing food sources become sanctuary sites. If you then site a high efficiency trap along side these other food sources don't be surprised if the wasps ignore the trap. It has little to do with the trap being more or less attractive than the other food sources and everything to do with efficiency and programmed feeding whereby the wasps navigate automatically to the programmed food source by mental map. The way in which you catch these wasps is by removing the competing food sources which has the effect of mobilizing the wasps so that they look for alternative food sources and then go into the high efficiency trap. One word of caution. If you remove competing food sources such as low efficiency traps then this should be done carefully otherwise the mobilized wasps may attack the hive before they get to the high efficiency trap. The good news is though, that if you remove the food source and place the high efficiency trap directly in its place, then the wasps that have learned to navigate to that food source will automatically enter the trap. We call this interruption trapping (as opposed to interception trapping) because you interrupt the programmed feeding behaviour to catch the wasps. This is one of the dynamic trapping techniques that simply isn't possible with low efficiency traps. It also means that you can focus wasp trapping to a very precise science especially around hives.

For instance take this clip from Maddie Moate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL8-oABeSL8

The entrances to the hive are really difficult to defend because the sentry bees are divided (and conquered) between a series of openings. In this arrangement wasps get relatively easy access into the hive and so placing a high efficiency wasp trap directly in front of the entrance won't catch the wasps that are already programmed to go to (into) the hive. If the entrance arrangement is changed to a flat tunnel entrance as for example adopted by Millet, then what happens is that the wasps programmed to the entrances that have disappeared as a consequence of the rearrangement will be interrupted and therefore more likely to go into the trap and more importantly, the other wasps visiting the new entrance will be more easily rebuffed (i.e. the food source will become less accessible and therefore interrupted) and they will choose the path of least resistance which will be the trap.

So, if you have lots of wasps already established around the hive, it is perfectly possible with a little understanding, to basically eradicate the vast majority of them but you'll need to budget about 1 hour per competing food source that's removed so as to catch all of the foraging workers that were programmed to it.

In such a situation, the trap is more than capable of catching in excess of 17,000 wasps given its capacity and the species involved. Once the background population has be brought under control, then the trap can be used for interception trapping whereby only a few wasps will be caught to stay relatively wasp free.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[BeeJayBee]

"Think about being in a pub garden",

I'm thinking I'm thinking!

Bit late for today though!

Pop his name into the search bar and see if you can find some of his other posts. There is one thread in particular where he explains the wasp's life cycle, and how they hunt, which is very informative

Or try youtube? Here's one that compares two types of traps. (Sorry, can't get the link to go live)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0bt_7Tevtc

Or maybe look at what is probably Karol's channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2bBvIeUGnFxG7vdV6yPPqA/videos

 

[kazmcc]

Bit late for today though!



Or try youtube? Here's one that compares two types of traps. (Sorry, can't get the link to go live)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0bt_7Tevtc

Or maybe look at what is probably Karol's channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2bBvIeUGnFxG7vdV6yPPqA/videos

I just watched the wasp infest bin clip and you don't even have to move the original source all that far away do you?! Thanks for that. I'll have a good watch of those.

 

[snelgrove]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but I was of the understanding that wasp nests break up in the autumn and wasps defend for them selves as individuals , so how do scouts report back to other wasps ?

 

[kazmcc]

I think the workers will still stay with the nest, but there will be no more brood and won't continue to build or repair any damage. I may be wrong but this is what I gather from the things my wasp nest collecting friend says. I'm not sure whether the queen dies or not, but I do know that any queens or males produced leave the nest and don't return, so it's left to the workers until they die off. Hopefully Karol or someone else who knows will be able to fill in any gaps or correct me if I gather wrongly.

 

[snelgrove]

I think the workers will still stay with the nest, but there will be no more brood and won't continue to build or repair any damage. I may be wrong but this is what I gather from the things my wasp nest collecting friend says. I'm not sure whether the queen dies or not, but I do know that any queens or males produced leave the nest and don't return, so it's left to the workers until they die off. Hopefully Karol or someone else who knows will be able to fill in any gaps or correct me if I gather wrongly.

I have observed wasps in a state of torpor around empty buckets of syrup ect and come alive when the sun warms the air, leaving me to believe that they live out or there nests in the autumn. in which case jam jar traps or low efficiency traps will work.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My understanding was that after the drones and new queens have left the nest the workers stay in their old home till the cold and lack of food kills them.
Slightly off topic I found this photograph of a hibernating queen wasp where she has tucked her antennae and her wings under her middle legs to protect them. Fascinating

 

[snelgrove]

My understanding was that after the drones and new queens have left the nest the workers stay in their old home till the cold and lack of food kills them.
Slightly off topic I found this photograph of a hibernating queen wasp where she has tucked her antennae and her wings under her middle legs to protect them. Fascinating

queen wasps are found numerous times under the sides of the beehive roof hibernating

 

[Karol]

I have observed wasps in a state of torpor around empty buckets of syrup ect and come alive when the sun warms the air, leaving me to believe that they live out or there nests in the autumn. in which case jam jar traps or low efficiency traps will work.

Wasps are complex intelligent social insects with a strong survival instinct. The nests don't fall apart once the sexual progeny have been spawned. All that changes is the source of their carbohydrates.

During nest growth when there are grubs in the nest, the grubs need feeding with protein so there's a steady stream of workers coming and going with captured insect prey. These workers are fed by the grubs in the nest who digest insect skeletons which are made of complex sugar (chitin = n-acetylglucosamine) and regurgitate it as simple glucose. Nests at this time in the life cycle naturally therefore appear busy.

Once the sexual progeny leave the nest there cease to be any grubs in the nest which forces workers to find their carbohydrates elsewhere and this means that the workers don't spend quite as much time at the nest. However, there is always a resident population of sentries and the queen but it will be a small fraction of the total population. Workers will periodically return to the nest throughout the day and certainly to roost at night.

Now, here's the good bit. If you have swarm feeding wasps and you get rid of them using some of the techniques that I've demonstrated, then it takes a comparatively long time for the next scout to find the food source and even more time to recruit fellow workers. The reason for this is when they go back to the nest most of their colleagues will be out so they have to wait until some come back from their foraging trips before they can recruit them. Which basically means that once you've got rid of a swarm it may be several hours if not a few days before a new swarm gathers in number.

As for your observations Snelgrove about wasps living outside of their nests then I agree with you that many do. However, these wasps will either be sexual progeny or more likely wasps that have been displaced from nests that have been destroyed or treated.

This video clip is a video clip of just such a roost of displaced wasps where their nest was destroyed. There's no sound incidentally, and the video is filmed in three aspects just to demonstrate that there's no nest present. The wasps are roosting in a V shaped recess that is about 1 wasp deep formed between a facia board and the roof panel which is seen towards the end of the film clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8o1JN40hbw

It would be easy to conflate displaced roosting wasps with the notion that wasp nests fall apart in the autumn. The reality is very different.

 

[Karol]

<snip> I'm not sure whether the queen dies or not, but I do know that any queens or males produced leave the nest and don't return, so it's left to the workers until they die off. Hopefully Karol or someone else who knows will be able to fill in any gaps or correct me if I gather wrongly.

I think Kaz you have a deeper knowledge of wasps than you make out!

Queen survival is an interesting question. The answer is I'm not entirely sure and I haven't seen any solid research on the matter. So, quite humbly, I'm happy to say that I don't know what happens for certain. It's not clear whether the queen dies with the rest of her colony through starvation or whether she then hibernates again and has another go the following year. Most commentators (and for convenience I've tended to follow the same line because it's simpler) suggest that the old queen dies. However, I'm not so sure. Biologically there's no reason why the old queen shouldn't go off and hibernate again if she's still carrying enough genetic material. There's terrific variability in nest sizes with the average in the UK being between 2,000 and 5,000 adults. However, nests of 20,000 are not unheard of. Similarly, the largest nests in Australia have been estimated to contain in excess of 1,000,000 adults. All of which suggests that queen wasps carry an abundance of genetic material that would support at least a couple of average seasons' worth of wasps. We know that wasps occasionally lay down a second generation of sexual progeny within the same year so it's not such a leap to have that second generation span across winter with the queen hibernating in between. Honey bee queens survive for a few seasons and in Australia wasp nests adopt two and rarely three year spans (albeit that the queens don't appear to hibernate in between).

Upshot is that I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised by either or both scenarios. An interesting project for an entomology student no doubt.

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
I must have hovered up between 3-4k of wasps. Most from one underground nest (new one on me) very close to three of my hives. It seems to have done the trick. A lot of wasp have been diverted to the Ivy as well. Also I think the wasps are dying off naturally as they seem very sleepy.

 

[Matt77]

Thought I'd share my experiance of the Waspbasne trap, I have a small apiary with 3 hives in a field. I started using the wasp trap about the end of Aug when I noticed an increase in the ammount of wasps, I also found a wasp's nest roughly 50 yards from the hives. My first thought was to kill the nest to death, probably with fire or naplam. But I actually decided to site the trap, leave the nest alone & keep a careful eye on what was happening. I've caught roughly 60 wasps in the trap & had absoloutly no trouble from the the wasps & have not felt the need to get the naplam out. Yet.

Maybe I just got lucky, but I doubt it. I won't be going back to jam jars with holes the lids any time soon.

By the way, I've got nowt to do with Waspbane just thought my experiance may help someone to make a decission next year.

 

[kazmcc]

I think Kaz you have a deeper knowledge of wasps than you make out!

Queen survival is an interesting question. The answer is I'm not entirely sure and I haven't seen any solid research on the matter. So, quite humbly, I'm happy to say that I don't know what happens for certain. It's not clear whether the queen dies with the rest of her colony through starvation or whether she then hibernates again and has another go the following year. Most commentators (and for convenience I've tended to follow the same line because it's simpler) suggest that the old queen dies. However, I'm not so sure. Biologically there's no reason why the old queen shouldn't go off and hibernate again if she's still carrying enough genetic material. There's terrific variability in nest sizes with the average in the UK being between 2,000 and 5,000 adults. However, nests of 20,000 are not unheard of. Similarly, the largest nests in Australia have been estimated to contain in excess of 1,000,000 adults. All of which suggests that queen wasps carry an abundance of genetic material that would support at least a couple of average seasons' worth of wasps. We know that wasps occasionally lay down a second generation of sexual progeny within the same year so it's not such a leap to have that second generation span across winter with the queen hibernating in between. Honey bee queens survive for a few seasons and in Australia wasp nests adopt two and rarely three year spans (albeit that the queens don't appear to hibernate in between).

Upshot is that I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised by either or both scenarios. An interesting project for an entomology student no doubt.

Thank you! I have been busy with my questions this year. I have a friend who knows lots about wasps. He likes to collect nests to relocate them in his garden, then he photographs them as they progress, so I have been following a Dolichovespula sylvestris nest from start to finish this year and asking lots of questions. This is his flickr page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/108825294@N02/sets/72157656332422162
He waits until they have finished releasing queens and males, then he bobs along and collects the nests, without any protection!! The stings don't bother him. He says he collects them then as any damage done to the nest after this point will not be repaired, so he wants it in it's best condition. The only wasps he is wary of are V vulgaris, as he reckons that different wasps have different defensive areas around their nests, V rufa being the easiest. He is completely self taught, but has such knowledge!

This is a video he did of his D sylvestris nest after a bird flew into it. He modifies bird boxes by just removing the front panel once the nest is underway, so it can expand - https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=28&v=PbGayHdRL64

 

[dexter's shed]

If you have a high efficiency wasp trap that protects your hives and successfully intercepts scouting wasps and prevents them returning to the nest then effectively that 10° becomes a Bermuda triangle - completely invisible.


If you use low efficiency traps then that 10° becomes a real welcoming beacon - a massive come and get it ladies! So what happens is that those wasps that would have gone out to the remaining 350° concentrate into your little 10°. The result is that you put your hives under more pressure than needs be.

ok, having sat back and read all replies and answers, I feel I have learnt some new wasp facts, my question now then is between traps

does one tell the difference between high or low efficiency traps, by whether they are homemade or shop bought ?

or can homemade work just as well, if they don't allow escapee's ?

having looked at all the waspbane video's provided here, you can see they do a good job, the waspbane page suggests other attractants that can be used, rather than purchasing their ready made liquid, so it make's sense to me, to make a mk3 version, using all I have learnt here, I'm not against using shop products when my company is paying for it via a customer, but the tight ass in me cannot justify £30 plus on one trap, so again I'll be tinkering in the shed on another design

many thanks to Karol for all the info

 

[B3njy]

I had a massive wasp problem and tried all kinds of traps. The best by far were actually glue traps designed to catch mice.

They are strips of card with an extremely adhesive scented glue on them. I think I ordered mine from glue traps .co.uk

I literally hung these from pins on the sides of the hives near the base of the lowest brood box (not too low as they will catch actual mice). I caught hundreds of wasps every other day, not a single bee! After a couple of weeks I had totally decimated the wasp population which had been observed as up to 12 wasps hovering below and near my hives at any time.

I will be putting them out early spring next year in the hope of catching some evil wasp queens.

Highly recommended and pretty cheap!

 

[oliver90owner]

The whole theme from the OP and several others on this thread is to exterminate as many wasps (including colonies) as possible, at any time.

That is an utterly stupid idea. Wasps have an important part to play in the local ecology. Leave them alone. They are not your enemy and sensible precautionary measures with bee colonies is all that is needed to avoid this paranoia of wasps attacking bee colonies.

Only cull where necessary. Avoidance is simple. Keep bees better.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The whole theme from the OP and several others on this thread is to exterminate as many wasps (including colonies) as possible, at any time.

That is an utterly stupid idea. Wasps have an important part to play in the local ecology. Leave them alone. They are not your enemy and sensible precautionary measures with bee colonies is all that is needed to avoid this paranoia of wasps attacking bee colonies.

Only cull where necessary. Avoidance is simple. Keep bees better.

 

[dexter's shed]

I had a massive wasp problem and tried all kinds of traps. The best by far were actually glue traps designed to catch mice.

They are strips of card with an extremely adhesive scented glue on them. I think I ordered mine from glue traps .co.uk

I literally hung these from pins on the sides of the hives near the base of the lowest brood box (not too low as they will catch actual mice). I caught hundreds of wasps every other day, not a single bee! After a couple of weeks I had totally decimated the wasp population which had been observed as up to 12 wasps hovering below and near my hives at any time.

I will be putting them out early spring next year in the hope of catching some evil wasp queens.

Highly recommended and pretty cheap!

be very careful using glue boards, your using a pest control item for something other than what it was intended, I use around 200 per night per station, the law states the need constant observation, and that any rodents trapped that do not instantly die from asphyxiation as intended are to be humanely dispatched.
the way your using them you have no control over catching non pest species or even protected species,
saying I didn't know does not stand up in a court of law, and pesties with certification have been taken to court for inappropriate use of treatments

 

[kazmcc]

The whole theme from the OP and several others on this thread is to exterminate as many wasps (including colonies) as possible, at any time.

That is an utterly stupid idea. Wasps have an important part to play in the local ecology. Leave them alone. They are not your enemy and sensible precautionary measures with bee colonies is all that is needed to avoid this paranoia of wasps attacking bee colonies.

Only cull where necessary. Avoidance is simple. Keep bees better.