Mixing oxalic & syrup

[MandF]

Just a quick question - did a search but didnt find an answer in the fisrt batch of results:

I want to mix my OA solution, to apply this friday if the forecast is accurate (chilly enough that most bees should be at home and clustering).

I know I need 7.5g crystals to 100g water & 100g sugar.

So is the procedure to make up the syrup and then dissolve the OA in it? Presumably when the syrup is warm (not hot)?

I was concerned about the crystals not dissolving and/or mixing evenly throughout the syrup.

Thx

 

[MandF]

Actually, it would make more sense to use some of the 100g water to dissolve the OA, then add this to the syrup?

 

[drex]

Just bung it all in and mix it up.
Simples

 

[Heather]

http://www.beedata.com/files/drip-oxalic-bogdanov.PDF

I have used 20 gm of the Oxalic powder accurately weighed with 500 mls of 1:1 syrup. This does 9-10 hives.

I have had good results and bees cope well, with no obvious death. This is a once a year treatment!.

Just bung it in..... is very poor comment.
Wear a mask to cover your mouth and nose if mixing your own OA. The powder before dissolved is concentrated and will burn your throat.. When in the syrup it is safe.

 

[Finman]

.
Heather, he has 2 hives

accurately weighed 20 mg but you should weigh 23.44 mg to get relation 7,5-100-100


(these continuous own recipes are funny!)

 

[Finman]

Just bung it all in and mix it up.
Simples

It really does. Mix it couple of times with spoon.

It works too: 100g water to dissolve the OA first,

 

[MandF]

I probably need to say that I make my syrup by boiling a kettle and pouring boiling water on to the sugar, not bringing sugar/water to boil in a saucepan.

My concern was the just boiled water and crystals (fumes), do I not need to worry about that? I wont be bent over inhaling obviously

 

[Winker]

Warm watter is ok to do the job, then you wont have to worry about fumes

 

[susbees]

Make your syrup up as usual, cool to blood temperature, add OA carefully and stir to dissolve. Face mask makes sense.

75g OA:1000g water:1000g sucrose unless you have accurate postal scales. 20g? Which research did that figure come from?

 

[OXFORDBEE]

.
Heather, he has 2 hives

accurately weighed 20 mg but you should weigh 23.44 mg to get relation 7,5-100-100


(these continuous own recipes are funny!)

23.44 mg ... daft...

 

[Ruary]

http://www.beedata.com/files/drip-oxalic-bogdanov.PDF

I have used 20 gm of the Oxalic powder accurately weighed with 500 mls of 1:1 syrup. This does 9-10 hives.

I have had good results and bees cope well, with no obvious death. This is a once a year treatment!.

Just bung it in..... is very poor comment.
Wear a mask to cover your mouth and nose if mixing your own OA. The powder before dissolved is concentrated and will burn your throat.. When in the syrup it is safe.

Heather,
if you actually read the paper you for which you gave the URL above you would find that they tested several concentrations of Oxalic acid. And recommended a solution of 35 gms Oxalic acid dihydrate to 1 litre of sugar syrup (1 water to 1 sugar). This is chosen as being strong enough to be efficient at killing Varoa and weak enough to minimise the effect on bees.
Your mixture is 4% and you have not specified whether you are using the anhydrous or the dihydrate chemical.

 

[Finman]

Heather,
Your mixture is 4% and....

500 lm syrup is 625 g

...........20g OA / 625g syrup = 3,2%

 

[Ruary]

500 lm syrup is 625 g

...........20g OA / 625g syrup = 3,2%

Yes weight/ weight but concentrations can also be stated weight volume. In any case the Mixture quoted by Heather ( following the citation is stronger than the one she uses) using weight weight the concentration recommended in the Charriere, Imdorf paper is as I have stated 35g oxalic acid dihydrate to 1 litre of syrup (made by dissolving sugar in an equal weight of water).
Using your figure for the weight of syrup this gives a concentration of 35/1250 =2.8%.
It is easier to cite weight volume as that is what most beekeepers will use.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am sure I am not alone in most sincerely wishing you guys who are knowledgeable about the OA mix get together in PM and sort it out then give us the ones who are getting VERY confused a definitive mix which is safe to use.

Or is that just too difficult? I would have thought four of you could reach a consensus?

PH

 

[Ruary]

Read the paper quoted by Heather at http://www.beedata.com/files/drip-oxalic-bogdanov.PDF
and decide for your self, there are a number of research papers citing different strength which were derived empirically (trial). This paper has at least researched the effect of different strengths.
The point I was making was that having cited the paper, Heather then used her own mix.
Ruary

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I would have thought four of you could reach a consensus?

PH

Funniest thing I've seen on the forum this week!

 

[MandF]

I think there is a concensus?

- The recommended OA% in uk is 3.2%
- It doesnt matter if that % isnt totally accurate (you dont need precision scales).
- Be careful when following a recipe, some refer to volumes, some to weights, some to both etc
- The easiest recipe is 75g OA crystals to 1000g sugar and 1000g water, or multiples/fractions thereof.

I mixed mine, (approx) 7.5g crystals to 100g sugar and 100g water.

 

[Finman]

It is easier to cite weight volume as that is what most beekeepers will use.

Pure nonsense those wolume weights. I remember when you was not able to weight these stuffs. And now you play guru.

all beekeepers use weights when mesuring these. There is no way to calculate volumes in these stuffs.

sugar 100 ml + water 100 ml = 160 ml.

then how do you measure oxalic acid as ml, how many?

.

 

[Finman]

I think there is a concensus?


I mixed mine, (approx) 7.5g crystals to 100g sugar and 100g water.

What concensus.

Hivemaker wrote the same recipe 8th November 2008 at 04:02 PM.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20

after 3 years some one is searching concencus?

 

[gavin]

PH, there is pretty much a consensus as MandF said.

- concentrations of oxalic are usually given in weight/volume terms
- the 4.5% OA dihydrate (aka 3.2% anhydrous equivalent) is commonly used
- the 3.5% variant has been recommended too and worth thinking about (I'm using it this afternoon)
- the 6% in 30% syrup on offer is a poor choice

Susbees and myself have been discussing the details of what you need to do to convert the 6% to 4.5% if anyone is ready for that. It is a complex problem to solve completely accurately but we reckon that we're there within a few ml.

Finman remains on his own planet where concentrations have to be in weight/weight, advice can be given to use 24 mg, everyone who tries to help is castigated and accused of making up their own recipe, and he can make up his own nonsensical recipe. Go figure. 100% consensus will never happen. You have to go with those you think you can trust.