Mixing oxalic & syrup

[Finman]

.
1 liter syrup weights 1250 g

then add 35 g oxalic acid....about 1300 g..............35/1300 = 2,7%


.

 

[Finman]

.
Ontarío treatment recommendation.

For example to formic acid. Canada has much experience in it.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/11-treatment-recomms.pdf

 

[jimbeekeeper]

 

[boca]

Abacus

Perhaps this helps.

Do you have a smart phone?

 

[MandF]

Will you read the paper???

They are recommending a weaker solution because it is just as efficient at killing mites and has less potential to damage bees.

The report clearly shows it is NOT "just as efficient at killing mites"!!

1. They recommendED a weaker solution.

2. The purpose of using OA is to kill as many varroa mites as possible, that paper clearly showed 4.5% was the most effective at doing that.

The summary seems to be placing equal value in mite kills and colony numbers. It has therefore recommended, in my view, the compromise answer - allowing more mites to exist but with more bees.

The study does not mention how the respective hives performed at making honey, which I would suggest is a more accurate measure of a hives "health".

I wonder, with the increased prevalence of varroa, its role in CCD and other bee diseases, whether its recommendations would be the same in 2011?

In any case, it seems we might have 3 separate camps here now;

1. Do not use OA
2. Want to use the most effective % (4.2%), as and when they decide to treat.
3. Want to use a lower % (3%), knowing it is less effective but bee numbers will be higher the following season, according to that research paper, which was in central europe, and assuming more bees = healther colony and larger honey yields.

Does that cover all bases?

 

[Hivemaker.]

.
1 liter syrup weights 1250 g
then add 35 g oxalic acid....about 1300 g..............35/1300 = 2,7%
.

Now why would each new research seem be making the percentage of oxalic acid less.

 

[Hivemaker.]

This is old research,and spraying,...good for packages perhaps,but the interesting part is that the solution was much more toxic to the bees in sugar syrup,and these are low percentages of oxalic.

The effect of different concentrations of oxalic acid in aqueous and sucrose solution on Varroa mites and honey bees*


Kalle Toomemaa, Ants-Johannes Martin and Ingrid H. Williams

Institute of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, Estonian University of Life Sciences, 1A Kreutzwaldi St, 51014 Tartu, Estonia

Corresponding author: A.-J. Martin, [email protected]

Received: 15 April 2009
Revised: 15 December 2009
Accepted: 21 December 2009

Abstract

The toxicity of various concentrations of oxalic acid dihydrate (OA) in aqueous and sucrose solution to Varroa destructor and to honey bees (Apis mellifera) was assessed using submersion tests of caged bees and by spraying bees in colonies with and without brood. An aqueous solution of 0.5% OA gave effective control of the mite and was non-toxic to bees whereas higher concentrations of OA (1.0–2.0%) were highly toxic to bees. Submersion tests into solutions with 0.1% OA were acaricidal both in aqueous (59.9 ± 3.7 %) and in 50% sucrose solution (71.1 ± 4.2%) whereas concentrations of 0.2–0.5% OA were highly effective; OA in sucrose solution was more toxic to bees than OA in the aqueous solution. Spraying with 0.5% OA solution at a dose of 25 mL per comb in May 2003 and in April 2004 was 99.01–99.42% effective in mite control in Estonian standard one box long beehives with 22 frames (each 414 × 277 mm, area 1000 cm2 per comb side). Most mites fell after the first spraying. In autumn, spraying test colonies that had little capped brood once or twice with a 0.5% OA solution gave effective mite control (92.94 ± 0.01% and 91.84 ± 0.02%, respectively) with no noticeable toxicity to bees.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Does that cover all bases?

No!

The mixture should be shaken, not stirred!

 

[OXFORDBEE]

So it is
Canada accepted year 2011 new recommencations for bee diseases.
The receipt of trickling is the same what Switzerland have used

http://manitobabee.org/hive/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2011_recs_Feb15_final1.pdf

Oxalic acid:

They also mention oxalic acid vapourisation tooo...

2. Fumigator Method:
Apply only to outdoor colonies with a restricted lower hive entrance. Seal all upper hive entrances and cracks with tape to avoid escape of oxalic acid. When possible, treat while hives are wrapped to ensure they are properly sealed. Smoke the hive entrance to drive the bees away from the entrance and up onto frames. Place 2.0 g oxalic acid dehydrate powder into the fumigator. Follow the fumigation manufacturer’s directions for use.
Insert the fumigator into the hive through the bottom entrance. Apply heat until all oxalic acid dehydrate has been sublimated. There are reports that the fumigation method of treating hives with oxalic acid may also help to control honey bee tracheal mite, whereas the syrup solution method has little to no-effect on honey bee tracheal mites, but this needs further investigation.

 

[Finman]

Now why would each new research seem be making the percentage of oxalic acid less.

I asked several years ago from Seppo Korpela, why Switzerland has lower pergentage than 3,2? He said that its ill effects are smaller to bees and the efficacy practically the same.

After those days tens of researches have verified results and perhaps researchers have seen what is the idea.

However, he does not play who is afraid... Italy has that 4,2 and UK 6.0% with 30% sugar and Ireland has something odd.

Second however: Trickling, thymol and formic acid do not work allways. Reason is bad luck or something. To draw play ground too narrow in the safe area means too that misfortune occurs more often.

 

[Finman]

Now why would each new research seem be making the percentage of oxalic acid less.

I asked several years ago from Seppo Korpela, why Switzerland has lower pergentage than 3,2? He said that its ill effects are smaller to bees and the efficacy is practically the same.

After those days tens of researches have verified results and perhaps researchers have seen what is the idea.

However, he does not play who is afraid... Italy has that 4,2 and UK 6.0% with 30% sugar and Ireland has something odd.

Second however: Trickling, thymol and formic acid do not work allways. Reason is bad luck or something. To draw play ground too narrow in the safe area means too that misfortune occurs more often.

 

[Finman]

.

I found from forum 2 years old stuff about trickling. I got thanks from many writes but now I am lowsy *******.

Finman16th October 2009, 07:00 PM
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If you make for 3-5 hives, make

100 g warm water + 100 g sugar + 7 g oxalic acid.


40 ml to one box hive and

50 ml to 2 box hive.

You need not lift the upper box when you trickle 2 box.

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Frisbee16th October 2009, 07:47 PM
Thank-you Finman, very useful.

Frisbee

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ainsie16th October 2009, 10:49 PM
Hi Finman,thanks for the info I have noted dosing level of 3-3.5ml/seam of bees is the 5ml/seam that is often quoted too much or just not necessary?
Ainsie.

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admin16th October 2009, 10:52 PM
Hi Finman,thanks for the info I have noted dosing level of 3-3.5ml/seam of bees is the 5ml/seam that is often quoted too much or just not necessary?
Ainsie.

Do you have bees clustered in the outer frames?

I do 5ml per seam over max of 8 seams = 40ml per box.

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Finman17th October 2009, 04:56 AM
Hi Finman,thanks for the info I have noted dosing level of 3-3.5ml/seam of bees is the 5ml/seam that is often quoted too much or just not necessary?
Ainsie.

The dosing level has been reaseached carefully during years by experts. If you now change it, you take a risk that it does not work.

When I have 40 ml in my syringe, I rible lightly all seams first and the rest I put here and there. Bees spread the sticky stuff to each other.

If you put double dosage, bees become wet.

 

[MandF]

This is old research,and spraying,...good for packages perhaps,but the interesting part is that the solution was much more toxic to the bees in sugar syrup,and these are low percentages of oxalic.

..when submerging caged bees.. which would expose them to far more solution than 5ml on a whole seam.

Furthermore, removing frames to spray them isnt practical in the middle of winter - breaking the cluster would do far more damage to the colony than anything else.

By using sugar syrup presumably the idea is that the bees groom each other and spread the solution down to the rest of the bees below.

 

[MandF]

No!

The mixture should be shaken, not stirred!

I prefer to add an olive but some might want a lemon twist...

 

[gavin]

..when submerging caged bees.. which would expose them to far more solution than 5ml on a whole seam.

It is also an additional stress, and even the fact that they were using caged bees makes them more vulnerable to stresses of various kinds.

G.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Furthermore, removing frames to spray them isnt practical in the middle of winter - breaking the cluster would do far more damage to the colony than anything else.

By using sugar syrup presumably the idea is that the bees groom each other and spread the solution down to the rest of the bees below.

They sprayed them in may and april with 0.5 %,not the middle of winter,but that was not the reason for the post,however if you read the start of the post you can read the reason i put it up.

 

[gavin]

I prefer to add an olive but some might want a lemon twist...

I have some left-over after treating today. Would it make a reasonable base for a sweet-and-sour sauce for some stir-fry? A squirt of tomato paste and we're done?

101 things to do with your left-over oxalic .....

G.

PS and Don't try it at home folks, only kidding.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

I have some left-over after treating today. Would it make a reasonable base for a sweet-and-sour sauce for some stir-fry? A squirt of tomato paste and we're done?

101 things to do with your left-over oxalic .....

G.

PS and Don't try it at home folks, only kidding.

Spice it up with some Thymol!

 

[chipper]

From my readings, I understood the reason for the lower dosage of OA being recommended for "colder" northern climates was because of the longer broodless periods they have in winter and consequent lower bee mortality with lower dosages.
Higher dosges being tolerated better when the broodless period is shorter...
Asin milder southern european climates ( And Devon....)

 

[Finman]

Higher dosges being tolerated better when the broodless period is shorter...
Asin milder southern european climates ( And Devon....)

In North the cluster stays in the hive longer time than in South.

In South Finland bees are totally inside 5 months. They do not visit outside during that time.

But I think that this does not explain why countries have choosen different strenght.

Switzerland was the only country which took that 2.8% syrup after researches.