Honey sales, how much before you have to declare to the IR.

[Curly green fingers]

Hi,this was a bit of a debate at the pub with other beekeepers.
How much honey can you sell before you have to declare it to the tax man legally?
One of the beekeepers was saying a thousand pounds worth .
If your selling your 1lb jars for £6 like I've been for 200lbs of honey that's £1200
Offset the cost of hive equipment , bee's, jars and labour if you like the figure's are rather poor .
Does anyone no the right amount?
In fact when I think about how much the family friends neighbours have had I could of bought a new hive lol...
Cheers mark.

 

[wightbees]

You can get up to £1,000 each tax year in tax-free allowances for property or trading income from 6 April 2017. If you have both types of income, you’ll get a £1,000 allowance for each.

If your annual gross property income is £1,000 or less, from one or more property businesses you won’t have to tell HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) or declare this income on a tax return.

If your annual gross trading income is £1,000 or less, from one or more trades you may not have to tell HMRC, however there are circumstances when you must register for Self Assessment and declare your income on a tax return

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tax-free-allowances-on-property-and-trading-income

 

[Popparand]

Note income, NOT profit.

So if your costs (losses carried forward) exceed income you will still have to fill in a tax return, and pay your accountant for the privilege of augmenting your losses. If you haven't kept receipts for your costs or records you will not be able to substantiate your losses so will have to divvy up for the tax man.

Of course you will have the option of accounting for your bees either on a herd basis, or individually, but that will mean you have to teg, log and identify every bee.

 

[madasafish]

In reality HMRC is hardly going to chase any beekeeper when the tax due is under £1,000 (to take a round figure) as the costs involved in establishing what is due will exceed the likely tax due If your top tax rate = 30% (say) that means your taxable profits need to exceed £3,000 or your total revenues exceed the £1,000 Allowance by £3,000... (= £4,000)

So on the basis of selling a jar of honey at £5 per lb , you need to sell at least (£4,000/£5) 800 jars.

But of course if you sell queens and or nucs as well those revenues will reduce that figure..

Having said the above, HMRC may decide to make an example of someone who blatantly breaks the rules - pour encourager les autres (Voltaire on Admiral Byng)

 

[EdNewman]

Note income, NOT profit.

So if your costs (losses carried forward) exceed income you will still have to fill in a tax return, and pay your accountant for the privilege of augmenting your losses. If you haven't kept receipts for your costs or records you will not be able to substantiate your losses so will have to divvy up for the tax man.

Of course you will have the option of accounting for your bees either on a herd basis, or individually, but that will mean you have to teg, log and identify every bee.

On the flip side of this, you can offset your losses against other earnings. Not a bad tax avoidance for a low income sole trader who also keeps bees. Although on sales of £1000 I think you would have a hard time convincing the tax man that it is a commercial venture rather than a hobby.

 

[Millet]

If you are selling jars of honey at stalls/from the boot of the car/ to friends of friends and family how on Earth can you work out how much you have sold to each individual source inbetween giving it away for free...by the way this is my hobby not a business ..

 

[wightbees]

You keep records

 

[Millet]

You keep records

That's easy.. Ha... i sold 30/ oop's 300 to so and so and another 60/6000 to the other so and so... all the cash was in my hand so to speak as i do not not have the means to take card payment.. ..

 

[Millet]

You keep records

That's easy.. Ha... i sold 30/ oop's 300 to so and so and another 60/6000 to the other so and so... all the cash was in my hand so to speak as i no not have the means to take card payment and take receipts.. ..

 

[B+.]

How much honey can you sell before you have to declare it to the tax man legally?

You might like to read this https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=464279&postcount=80

 

[ShinySideUp]

With Amazon, Apple, and as many politicians and businessmen as you can throw a stick at all managing to avoid paying anything near what they ought to in tax I can say I would have to sell an awful lot of honey before I even thought about the taxman. If he wants to come after me for my 90 jars of honey that I sold this year he is welcome, while he is here he can pay me back all the costs, VAT and taxes I paid on my hives, equipment, jars, labels, diesel, et al. not to mention my time, pain (I got a lot of stings this year) and stress.

 

[oliver90owner]

With Amazon, Apple, and as many politicians and businessmen as you can throw a stick at all managing to avoid paying anything near what they ought to in tax I can say I would have to sell an awful lot of honey before I even thought about the taxman. If he wants to come after me for my 90 jars of honey that I sold this year he is welcome, while he is here he can pay me back all the costs, VAT and taxes I paid on my hives, equipment, jars, labels, diesel, et al. not to mention my time, pain (I got a lot of stings this year) and stress.

You seem very naive. Those people and companies are avoiding tax, which is legal. You would be evading income tax and thus be regarded as a criminal, if found guilty in a court of law.

Also you seem to be mathematically challenged? If you only sold 90 jars of honey, you would not need to inform the revenue collectors - read the first reply on the thread - unless you sold them for over £11.11 each!

Two points are worth mentioning. Firstly you would be stealing from all of those that pay their proper taxes - as they could all pay a little less. Secondly H M Gov abhor thieves - because they don’t like any competition to their own activities.

I suppose the other point to make is that you cannot claim back any VAT you may have paid out, unless you are already VAT registered with the tax man. That would likely cost you far more than the small amount you recouped in the longer term - unless you actually make it a proper business activity.

 

[EdNewman]

Secondly H M Gov abhor thieves - because they don’t like any competition to their own activities.

I love this!

 

[Finman]

With Amazon, Apple, and as many politicians and businessmen as you can throw a stick at all managing to avoid paying anything near what they ought to in tax I can say I would have to sell an awful lot of honey before I even thought about the taxman. If he wants to come after me for my 90 jars of honey that I sold this year he is welcome, while he is here he can pay me back all the costs, VAT and taxes I paid on my hives, equipment, jars, labels, diesel, et al. not to mention my time, pain (I got a lot of stings this year) and stress.

Tax will be paid from profit.

 

[Beefriendly]

Tax will be paid from profit.

Exactly.....and when HMG decides you owe them X thousands it's up to you have the records/receipts to show that you don't owe them that amount (or do, as the case may be). Otherwise you will pay them the tax on what they estimate your profit to be.....and they can backdate 4 years.

 

[Finman]

...and they can backdate 4 years.

3 hives x 15 kg x 4 y.

Tax officers must have better to do than hunt for a back yard beekeeper.

 

[dpearce4]

having recently gone legitimate I also registered for VAT.

Honey is Zero Rated and all kit and jars etcetera have VAT at 20% so I get a nice little refund every 3months. My first was large as you can back date your claim.

Really worth thinking about for those of you that have a decent amount of sales ie over £1k per year.

 

[Curly green fingers]

I love this!

Brilliant that comment , thanks for the replys the op has been busy avading the tax man after this thread that's why I've not been posting I'm to damn scared .

Really it seems everyone wants there gardens looking really good for Christmas were so busy I'm flat out every day of the week at the mo.......
Merry Christmas indeed

 

[madasafish]

having recently gone legitimate I also registered for VAT.

Honey is Zero Rated and all kit and jars etcetera have VAT at 20% so I get a nice little refund every 3months. My first was large as you can back date your claim.

Really worth thinking about for those of you that have a decent amount of sales ie over £1k per year.

Thanks for the reminder. must investigate the cost/benefits..

 

[Beefriendly]

Thanks for the reminder. must investigate the cost/benefits..

If you are in the least bit serious about selling honey it's well worth while. Although it's cheaper if you do the accounting yourself. You need to file returns on-line every three months, about 5 figures. Vat due, vat reclaimed, sales, spending minus Vat and European sales If you run a honey selling business I'd say it's almost obligatory to be VAT registered.
And before anyone starts with the 65K (or whatever) that is different issue, at those sales it's compulsory to be registered, this is voluntary registration aimed at small businesses who can benefit reclainming Vat on their purchases.