Double (national) brood vs. 14x12

[JamezF]

What are people's thoughts? I'm wondering if life might be easier to switch from double brood to 14x12 because of the reduced work when inspecting and I'm not really completely convinced that my colonies really need the volume of a double brood box. Also having just moved some double brood colonies I can't deny that they're pretty heavy, even in polystyrene. Whilst I can handle that now, it won't necessarily always be the case. It's not uncommon around here to run brood and a half, but I can't help feeling that's the most awkward of all possible options.

The positives of double brood for me are ease of splitting (for whatever reason), rarely having to feed, all the brood parts are identical and usually I can do a comb change once the bees are properly active by removing the bottom box (which is rarely in use at that point) and putting a fresh box of foundation on top, then repeating the process for the next season.

I'm wondering if using 14x12 frames might result in more honey in the supers at the end of the summer, but is that offset by the need to feed? Are there other pros or cons of going to 14x12?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Double brood - it's a no brainer. 14x12 is neither fish nor foul

 

[JamezF]

Double brood - it's a no brainer

Sounds like I'm eminently well-qualified then

James

 

[Finman]

What are people's thoughts? I'm wondering if life might be easier to switch from double brood to 14x12 because of the reduced work when inspecting and I'm not really completely convinced that my colonies really need the volume of a double brood box. A

James

You are only one, who knows, are two brood boxes good. The colony needs brood soace to brood, poölen stores and to honey. If brood space is too small, bees must store pollen into supers.

A beekeeper needs a big colony/hive, that it has capasity to forage and store nectar from field as much as the fields have.

If your queens do not need two brood boxes, I rebommend that you get better queens.

I use 3 brood boxes in my hives. I inspect the uppermost box for swarming weekly, because they do the queen cells in top most brood box if they do them.
.

 

[Erichalfbee]

14x12 convert here. One brood to check. None of my bees are prolific enough to warrant two brood boxes.

 

[ericbeaumont]

switch from double brood to 14x12 because of the reduced work

14x12 gives 41% more space than a National deep; by themselves, both are often insufficient. What to add to a single 14x12? Another? Heavy to shift when full. A deep, and put up with the infuriation of two frame sizes?

I tried 14x12 for far too long, but at least the boxes make very good market display stands.

Doubles (or triple!) National deeps give better options for flexible management.

 

[Finman]

Doubles (or triple!) National deeps give better options for flexible management.

It is very easy to renew brood combs in douple brood.

Actually I do not use excluder. Gradually I noticed that the hive needs 3 langstrot brood boxes. Lowest brood box is full of pollen after main yield. It id valuable stuff in broodrearing, when nature does not offer flowers in August.

 

[nantmoel]

I've been a convert to 14x12, only one BB to inspect, big enough (just) for my prolific queens. You have to be able to handle the frames mind. If I was to start again I would seriously move to Dadant.

 

[pargyle]

14x12 convert here. One brood to check. None of my bees are prolific enough to warrant two brood boxes.

And me, I like them ... and to be honest the 14 x 12 box is usually big enough to take even the biggest colony and the most fecund of queens- by the time they have got to full size you have supers on anyway and they have the extra space they need ..

Lots of advantages ... lot easier to inspect, less kit to store, overwintering in a single brood box that has been well stocked ... you can demaree with two boxes rather than three.

But it's all a matter of personal choice and what suits YOU - the only way to find out is to try a 14 x 12 and see.

 

[pargyle]

It is very easy to renew brood combs in douple brood.

Actually I do not use excluder. Gradually I noticed that the hive needs 3 langstrot brood boxes. Lowest brood box is full of pollen after main yield. It id valuable stuff in broodrearing, when nature does not offer flowers in August.

I don't use queen excluders either ... the queen might lay up a bit in the first super in spring but once they start to store nectar she goes back down into the brood box. No problem.

 

[Finman]

I don't use queen excluders either ... the queen might lay up a bit in the first super in spring but once they start to store nectar she goes back down into the brood box. No problem.

So it happens

 

[Boston Bees]

Double brood - it's a no brainer. 14x12 is neither fish nor foul

Foul, but also not foul?

 

[drex]

Double BB for me. 14x12 frames are too unwieldy. I can do tilt inspections, and as long as I arrange it to have brood up against the QE ( as per Wally Shaw), I have no problem getting them to put honey in the super

 

[Buzby]

14 x 12 everyday/ It's a no brainer
OR if you don't move your hives why not try Dartington Long deeps.

 

[Finman]

14 x 12 everyday/ It's a no brainer
OR if you don't move your hives why not try Dartington Long deeps.

I burned my long hives 58 years ago.
Why? An experienced beekeeper said to me : Burn them!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Double brood national for me, you have so many more frames of brood for nucs, splits, manipulations to expansion is good.

 

[pargyle]

Double brood national for me, you have so many more frames of brood for nucs, splits, manipulations to expansion is good.

Ermmm ... but they are smaller frames so you get more brood on a 14 x 12 frame if you are going to make up Nucs from splitting colonies ? Two 14 x 12 frames full of brood is nearly equivalent to three nationals or when I make up splits I take three 14 x 12 frames of brood which gives you a really strong start to your new colony.

Like everything in beekeeping ...there's always another opinion and an equally right way.

 

[user 819]

Only one flaw with BS National I see and that is the box size should have been all one size and the boxes a mid size box between the two current sizes of super and deep brood. 14 x 12 as far as I'm concerned was not to my liking at all when I used it for a few years.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Ermmm ... but they are smaller frames so you get more brood on a 14 x 12 frame if you are going to make up Nucs from splitting colonies ? Two 14 x 12 frames full of brood is nearly equivalent to three nationals or when I make up splits I take three 14 x 12 frames of brood which gives you a really strong start to your new colony.

Like everything in beekeeping ...there's always another opinion and an equally right way.

My queen's aren't fecund enough for 2 14x12s and I would be surprised if yours were.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Delete pls