Does anyone use lactic acid?

[louiseww]

The chair of our local group (25 years experience) uses lactic acid diluted to a 15% sprayed lightly on the bees in early December.
Mine are still bringing in a little pollen on relatively warm days which suggests that they still have brood!
Oxalic seems to be undergoing a review at the moment so what does everyone think?
Thanks

 

[RoofTops]

I have only come across lactic acid being sprayed early in the year. It doesn't do anything to varroa in cells so if there is brood, which is very likely in the UK in early December it will not be very effective and opening up a hive in December to spray the bees with anything seems very unwise. Lactic acid seems to be one of those treatments that had its supporters in the early years of varroa when people were trying all sorts of things but I would have thought it is not widely used anymore. However, you will always find a few beekeepers who practice something unique and will argue passionately in its defence. It helps keep this Forum going!

I am not aware of any review of oxalic - it is widely used.

 

[MuswellMetro]

The chair of our local group (25 years experience) uses lactic acid diluted to a 15% sprayed lightly on the bees in early December.
Mine are still bringing in a little pollen on relatively warm days which suggests that they still have brood!
Oxalic seems to be undergoing a review at the moment so what does everyone think?
Thanks

i use it ,but thats because i am very allergic to rhubarb,

lattic requires two applications, you have to break the cluster and lightly wet the bees

1lt for about a tenner from a big beehive suppliers treats about ten hives, a well know shop of theirs at windsor were selling out of date bottles in october, so be aware if you buy it that it is has a best befor date

 

[Finman]

.
Lactic acid spraying was popular 15 years ago in Germany.
Now better methods have been developed.
Now spraying with 3% oxalic acid water (no sugar) is recommended, but not lactic acid.

I sprayed oxalic acid to some hives when I conditioned hives for winer. I shook bees to ground and sprayed 3% oxalic acid on them. When weather was cold and i sprayed water, it dropped bees' temperature so that they did not moved at all. I poured bees into hive and they woke up.

It seems that the weather should be very good if you spray the bees or at leats brood frames.

 

[Vergilius]

I have only come across lactic acid being sprayed early in the year. It doesn't do anything to varroa in cells so if there is brood, which is very likely in the UK in early December it will not be very effective and opening up a hive in December to spray the bees with anything seems very unwise. Lactic acid seems to be one of those treatments that had its supporters in the early years of varroa when people were trying all sorts of things but I would have thought it is not widely used anymore. However, you will always find a few beekeepers who practice something unique and will argue passionately in its defence. It helps keep this Forum going!

I am not aware of any review of oxalic - it is widely used.

So, essentially, it is a less effective treatment than oxalic.


Ben P

 

[Finman]

.
Oxalic acid trickling is the only method which is recommended to use in winter.

Others are recommended to use after taking honey from away. They can be used in spring too.

Folks do what they do and they do not mind if researchers have developed 10 years best methods. Daddy knows best.

 

[Finman]

The chair of our local group (25 years experience)

varroa was found in UK first 1992. .....how long he has used lactic acid or other methods.

I killed my first varroa hive 1982.

 

[MuswellMetro]

So, essentially, it is a less effective treatment than oxalic.


Ben P

yes, less effective ,if i wasn't allergic to rhubarb/oxalic i would use oxalic, but my queens last longer ( 3 or 4 years)

 

[Finman]

yes, less effective ,if i wasn't allergic to rhubarb/oxalic i would use oxalic, but my queens last longer ( 3 or 4 years)

there is no idea to keep queens 3-4 years.

 

[Mickby]

How long you keep yours, Finman?

 

[oliver90owner]

Not long enough for them to be possibly adversely affected by repeated oxalic acid treatment!

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

How long you keep yours, Finman?

one year. The best couple queens I keep for rearing, but 3 years none. I know no reason to keep 3 years.

If I have a good queen, I take daughters from it but not next year. It will became internal breeding if you use the same mom because next year drones are virgins' brothers.

 

[louiseww]

Hi
I have got lactic acid so I can mix this up. When do you treat yours Muswell? I think my bees still have brood as they are collecting pollen. Still havn't made up my mind whether to use oxalic.
Thanks
Louise

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi
I have got lactic acid so I can mix this up. When do you treat yours Muswell? I think my bees still have brood as they are collecting pollen. Still havn't made up my mind whether to use oxalic.
Thanks
Louise

first it is much easier with two people and much more hassle than oxalic, but i come up in red rash just handling a closed used bottle of oxalic

i do mine with lactic acid twice on one or two weeks either side of christmas

insulation off ,crown off, locate cluster, friend lifts out only clusters frames, zap one side,zap other, say repeated three to five times depending on how they are clustered cluster, crown back, fondant on , eke on, insulation back.....done

you have to have a fine spray not a squirty type and you mist the bees rather than drench them, they should have a silvermist on them


but as i said oxalic dribbling is easier ,less invasive, can be done by one person but again is recommended be done a low/zero brood and maymore have life shorting properties for queens, brood and winter workers than lactic but kills more mites

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

I use lactic acid when i'm working hard !!! and I use lots of oxalic acid to remove the rust spots off my decks....

 

[Dods bisyssla]

Oxalic Acid (OA) and Lactic Acid (LA) works very similar since both needs to be applied on to the bees to have effect and neither of them penetrates the cells. The advantage of LA is that it is the least harmful acid, both for bees and man, and require very little protective gear. Also, since applied by a spraycan it can be included in the Bee bag and readily at hand when needed, Since LA gives no taste to the honey in the amount used one (1000-1500 ppm before sensing it) can use it as a summer knockdown (that is how we use it). Advantage of OA is that if one have to wait until temprature is very low (to ensure no broods) than the trickle method does not cool down the colony since you do not have to remove the combs nor add any water that the bees must fan away. OA is on the other hand harmful to lungs (and skin and eyes) so if the sublimation method is used then full protection gear must be used. Also, OA is known to increase queen mortality as well as to the bees and brood. Above facts can easily be found by googling. We use LA together with drone culling and usually we need no further winter treatment. Also the fact that 15% LA is considered harmless to humans (actually also sold as skin peeling product) means that accidents are less likley to occurr.
Efficiency for both acids are in the region of 60-90% depedning on which report one read.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just the once as a summer knockdown?

 

[Dods bisyssla]

well its part of our IPM based strategy that I described in detail in another post. Basically we carry out drone culling 5-6 times in the spring/early summer. After that Mite level is usually very low and we count weekly the natural mite drops. If mite drops exceeds our threshold value we carry out a knockdown treatment with LA . If mite drops are down to acceptable level then all is good but if not we do another knockdown. So, some hives get 0 LA treatments and some get 1 or more treatments depending on mite level. Only occasionally a formic acid treatment have been needed with this strategy (only three hives of 50-60 in last five years needed formic acid, and only one winter loss). OA have not been used since many years. If you want to read in detail pls go to www.dodsbisyssla.com where you find an articles of the strategy with references.

 

[jeff33]

I am still not sold about drone culling for mite control. Not it's effectiveness which is proven but the drone depletion impacting on the quality of mating.

controlled drone production will be restricted to the frame given for this purpose with colonies usually not rearing more drones elsewhere.if you do it throughout the season you will end up with a very limited number of good drones from your colonies increasing risks of mating with more random with poor traits.

The only time I use drones for varroa control is when I raise large amounts of drones for mating. For each frame of drone which emerges, I will put another one afterwards which will be removed when capped. I will also blast a round of OA sublimation.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am still not sold about drone culling for mite control. Not it's effectiveness which is proven

No it hasn't - it has very little long term effect on mite numbers