Beekeeping tax strategy

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Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
232
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237
Location
Surrey, England
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
10
This year I've spent around £3.2k on beekeeping equipment.
Next year I'm hoping for a gross income of <£2k from selling honey.

Does anyone have experience of using these numbers for most efficient tax strategy?

I'm now on PAYE. For many years, until a few weeks ago, I had my own Ltd company, which I used for self-employed work. If I still had that compay I'd put the expenses down as a loss, with the effect of reducing my tax liability.

Should I just use the HMRC Self Assessment service, to claim a bit of tax relief on this year's expenditure, or is there a better approach?
 
If you’re planning on making a profit I’d keep quite as you’ll then have to pay tax on that income……..
If like most beekeepers you actually run at a loss then yes, offset losses against your other income.
If you’re serious about setting up a bee farming enterprise then go voluntary VAT registered - immediate 20% saving.
 
If you’re serious about setting up a bee farming enterprise then go voluntary VAT registered - immediate 20% saving.
having only seven hives would not satisfy HMRC that it is a 'serious' business so they would refuse registration
 
This year I've spent around £3.2k on beekeeping equipment.
Next year I'm hoping for a gross income of <£2k from selling honey.

Does anyone have experience of using these numbers for most efficient tax strategy?

I'm now on PAYE. For many years, until a few weeks ago, I had my own Ltd company, which I used for self-employed work. If I still had that compay I'd put the expenses down as a loss, with the effect of reducing my tax liability.

Should I just use the HMRC Self Assessment service, to claim a bit of tax relief on this year's expenditure, or is there a better approach?
It's a minefield ... you can offset losses against earned income but beware HMC & E will not like refunding you income tax and will eventually crawl all over your accounts looking for the mars bar you inadvertently claimed as tax deductible on a receipt for fuel and make your life a misery. Been there in a past life and they are remorseless - the old saying 'owe them £5k and you have a problem, owe them £5m and they have a problem'. Junior tax inspectors cut their teeth on small (and largely insignificant businesses) and it is in their interest to find something (that's my opinion based on my experience)

Plus you can't fully offset capital equipment so you can only use the percentage write down.

Better off just treating it as a hobby and keeping a note of the costs and any profits until you grow to a size where you HAVE to start and declare income .. and then regjster as a business - the business can always purchase your kit when it starts up so you get the capital offset allowance.

Most hobby beekeepers (and a few minor beefarmers) will tell you the best they do in the early years is break even - and in some years the costs far outweigh the revenue.
 
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HMC & E will not like refunding you income
It's not HMC&E any more, and that's where the issue lies. Pre HMRC, VAT Officers and Tax inspectors were two entirely different species.
VAT officers were customs officers forced into VAT to get promotion, but at least the hung on to their souls.
JK Rowling used Inland revenue officers as a model for the dementors in the Harry Potter books (but toned them down a bit so as to not terrify the kiddies too much).
I remember an old chief engineer of mine (in his seventies now) recalling that in his youth he worked in an office directly below an Inland revenue one, one Christmas time they thought they'd pop upstairs to share some Christmas cheer with 'the revenue mob' (at that time C&E and IR were totally separate entities, Inland Revenue being a pretty young department with no real heritage, unlike us in the Senior Service) Mike said that he walked into their office and he could feel the joy being sucked out of him it was like stepping into a a chapter of 'A Christmas Carol'
The current 'modern' service is a hybrid of VAT and Inland revenue and the majority of the old Customs mob are long gone
 
Great thing about honey is its zero-rated (basically VAT free) when you sell it. So 20% off all equipment and no VAT to pay on your sales - win win.
Can't believe so many people think it is hard work - 4 times a year you do a digital return.
If you have a business account with NatWest or Royal Bank of Scotland you get software called Freeagent which does all the hard work for you (scan your receipts in etc..)
You can even claim the VAT back from previous years from before you were VAT registered - https://support.freeagent.com/hc/en...purchases-made-before-you-were-VAT-registered.
It would be a shame to get to the point of having to pay tax on your profits if you didn't get to claim VAT back on your initial expenses.
As my accountant explained to my brother recently, "your business does not have to make a profit - but you have to have the intent to make a profit at some point". A business plan is all that is needed.
 
Great thing about honey is its zero-rated (basically VAT free) when you sell it. So 20% off all equipment and no VAT to pay on your sales - win win.
Can't believe so many people think it is hard work - 4 times a year you do a digital return.
If you have a business account with NatWest or Royal Bank of Scotland you get software called Freeagent which does all the hard work for you (scan your receipts in etc..)
You can even claim the VAT back from previous years from before you were VAT registered - https://support.freeagent.com/hc/en...purchases-made-before-you-were-VAT-registered.
It would be a shame to get to the point of having to pay tax on your profits if you didn't get to claim VAT back on your initial expenses.
As my accountant explained to my brother recently, "your business does not have to make a profit - but you have to have the intent to make a profit at some point". A business plan is all that is needed.
I use QuickBooks with the VAT software. Took me about five minutes to double check my quarterly return two weeks ago.
 
Great thing about honey is its zero-rated (basically VAT free) when you sell it. So 20% off all equipment and no VAT to pay on your sales - win win.
Can't believe so many people think it is hard work - 4 times a year you do a digital return.
If you have a business account with NatWest or Royal Bank of Scotland you get software called Freeagent which does all the hard work for you (scan your receipts in etc..)
You can even claim the VAT back from previous years from before you were VAT registered - https://support.freeagent.com/hc/en...purchases-made-before-you-were-VAT-registered.
It would be a shame to get to the point of having to pay tax on your profits if you didn't get to claim VAT back on your initial expenses.
As my accountant explained to my brother recently, "your business does not have to make a profit - but you have to have the intent to make a profit at some point". A business plan is all that is needed.
Yes ... but going back to the OP ... 7 hives is not a business and with every will in the world the VAT people will look at an application and if it is not realistic they won't allow you to register .. or if you manage to convince them you do have a business .. if you are continually claiming VAT back and have a small turnover they will deregister you.

You are right - VAT returns are not difficult - even less difficult now that it's all on line and with the variety of software that is available but ... bear in mind that once you are registered you will get inspected and your accounts have to be clean and green, the inspectors are not stupid and they have software that indentifies anomalies ... and it's that which leads to inspections, If you have continual losses but a healthy lifestyle ...you will have the Inland Revenue crawling all over your personal accounts as well as the business.
 
having only seven hives would not satisfy HMRC that it is a 'serious' business so they would refuse registration
Completely untrue. They will not and cannot refuse a voluntary VAT registration for even the smallest enterprise, as long as it passes the test of not being just a hobby venture.

Anyone who makes regular commerical sales can be regarded as a business. Per VAT notices 700 and 700/1 there is specific mention of VAT registration not being permissible to ouputs/inputs related to 'hobby' activity, but the definition of that is subjective. Certainly, if there is not regular turnover (whatever the value) then you won't qualify for VAT registration. It is also useful to reflect on the fact that for Self Assessment purposes, the trading alowance for hobby income (based on turnover (not profit)) up to which you don't pay any income tax is £1,000. In fact, below those levels, you don't even need to declare it.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that, based on >£1,000 of annual turnover, and this being a regular activity (e.g. the wholesale or retail of honey) this is a business activity you can/should consider registering for VAT. You won't get refused. Obviously, the whole point of a business is that it should be run to ultimately render a profit. Again, that (i.e. how long you can justify making trading losses on a small scale enterprise before it is becomes clearly unprofitable) is subjective.

Really, the whole point should be you ultimately making a taxable profit (no matter how small).

If you embark on your venture, and say, fail to get the traction, there is nothing stopping you from de-registering from VAT at a later date.

As it stands, whilst some of your £3.2k of inputs (e.g. feed) may be zero-rated, most of your inputs will most likely be standard rated, and the related VAT could therefore be reclaimed. Not being VAT registered means that you are missing out on up to £550 VAT-back on your purchases.

Assuming the majority of your sales are honey (which is zero-rated), there won't be much, if any, VAT owing to HRMC in the other direction.

... So to me, it's a no-brainer. If you're fundamentally honest, and you keep your receipts, you have notthing to fear, if HRMC come calling.

Also, in relation to Income Tax, and assuming (as above) you turn-over >£1,000, then, of course, you MUST declare your income. Here, you can either choose to offset your income against the trading allowance, or - given that your expenditure at this phase of your enterprise is in excess of your income - offset your income with expenses ... leaving you with a trading loss - which is tax allowable, at your prevailing income tax rate.

This is not bogus or specious. It is not fraudulent, nor in any way 'tax evasion' - it's just applying the rules which apply to us all.

Your choice whether you do it, but if you were a 40% taxpayer, and you were making a c.a. £1k trading loss for the forseeable (say £3k inputs, £2k outputs), then, between the Self Assessment and VAT, you could be setting fire to about £1k p.a. by not registering/declaring.

Not to be sniffed at.
 
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if you are continually claiming VAT back and have a small turnover they will deregister you
Not true.

Say you are a big VAT registered honey packer. Lots of inputs @ standard rate or reduced rate to reclaim. Zero rated outputs.

Consistent VAT refunds.

That's VAT. The size of your enterprise is immaterial.
 
Not to be sniffed at.
But will be sniffed at by the IR and VAT people ... I've been through a (totally undeserved) formal tax inspection/investigation - when the cost of accountancy fees vastly outweighed any other benefit. I was runnng a small business alongside my employed income .. they crawled over everything - personal and business. I kept my receipts, kept my accounts in good order but declared losses for three years in the start up years and they didn't like it - or believe me.

And .. they are one of the few Government organisations where you have to prove them wrong .. not the other way round.
 
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Not true.

Say you are a big VAT registered honey packer. Lots of inputs @ standard rate or reduced rate to reclaim. Zero rated outputs.

Consistent VAT refunds.

That's VAT. The size of your enterprise is immaterial.
Yes .. I had an export company where all our sales were zero rated as they went to Africa and we claimed back the input tax so we usually got a healthy cheque back from the VAT people each quarter ... but I had a turnover of £1.2m ... We are talking about hobby level (or just above) beekeeping. Cloud cuckoo land if you think it's worth the effort for what little gain there is and the potential for having every inch of your lifestyle and expenses investigated.
 
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Completely untrue. They will not and cannot refuse a voluntary VAT registration for even the smallest enterprise, as long as it passes the test of not being just a hobby venture.
Well, it's been a few years since I was a VAT registration officer for the Bristol area during the heady boom and bust times of the late eighties, but voluntary registration is a concession, not a right, and that has not changed, we used to laugh at anyone turning up expecting voluntary registration of a 'repayment trader' with only a couple of grand turnover (and the registration threshold then was only £22,000 then!) so yes, they can and will not allow a tiny business to register however good the intentions of the applicant may be, and they would also possibly refer it to the investigation team as a bonus, it would take a lot of convincing for a business with a turnover of just a couple of grand.
Definitely cloud cuckoo land
 
I certainly think it is far easier to bolt one business onto another (i.e. you are a writer or photographer and add beekeeping to the business).
I have a friend who is a consultant, writer and photographer and all the consultancy money goes into the expenses of the other 2. Never paid tax, 15+ years of travel photography and writing articles for magazines. He has a very good accountant that pulls him up if he ever gets near the mark.
His turnover is 100k+ and he brings income in for all three strands of the business, but 2 strands have high costs.
I would recommend going on a small business course to anyone interested in running a business - just don't fall for the 'you need to borrow money' sell at the end!
 

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