Me and my bee.

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

Welcome Chris, I'm treatment free too ... have been since I started keeping bees. I'm afraid there are a few on here who will take exception to anyone declaring themselves as TF... I've heard all the arguments over the years and to be honest, if my colonies were suffering from an excessive varroa load then I would treat them ... and you will find that the best treatment and the least invasive is Oxalic Acid by sublimation. I strongly recommend it when you need to treat for varroa, it has virtually no effect on the bees, can give up to a 97% mite kill rate and once you have the kit costs pennies per hive. There's a lot to be said for it ... unlike (and please don't take this the wrong way) nearly all of these, most of which are useless, disruptive or destructive, in some cases all threeno:

Brood break.
Bailey comb change
Shook Swarm
Queen trapping
Icing sugar
Drone culling

You say you are counting mites ... presumably on the inspection board ? This is a notoriously poor way of estimating the mite load in a colony. If you are going to be truly cognisant of the varroa level in your colonies you should be doing sugar rolls .... this does a proper job and does absolutely no harm to the bees. It's quick, effective and you can do it on at least some colonies every time you inspect. If you are not doing sugar rolls you should watch this video.



There are a number of TF beekeepers on here .. and it is clear that some colonies, in some locations. for some reason and a bit of luck appear to be able to thrive and survive and manage the varroa levels in the hive. MIne do and as I've often said on here, I have no firm conclusions about why this is. It's clearly a combination of factors that together contrive to permit my bees to continue to be TF.

Local area
Hive environment
Beekeeping practice
Local Forage
Other colonies in the area
Factors that can affect varroas' ability to successfully breed
Your bees

All can have an impact ...

So, we've been here before - hopefully people will give you a bit of leeway as you are a new member ... try not to be evangelistic about being Treatment Free ... you are very welcome on here and entitled to keep your bees the way you keep them and equally respect those who prefer to tread a more conventional path in their beekeeping.

Tell us more about your beekeeping and the journey that you have been on .. there's only two rules on here - No profanity and kick the ball not the man ... but it's a lightly moderated forum so expect to be challenged if you make statements that you can't substantiate. Hang around, there are lots of experienced beekeepers here who have some novel and innovative ideas and a wealth of knowledge which they share freely.

It's undoubtedly the best beekeeping forum on the planet. Enjoy.

Insert boards get a bad rap! They are a rough quantitative guide, taken from 100% of the colony, non-invasive, available all year around, labour intensive potentially but provide a wealth of other information. And provide a floor if that’s one’s preference. They do need interpretation as to what is going on in the colony.

Sugar rolls are a rougher guide of mites only. Extrapolated from a sample of sub 1% of the colony. Available only during open season.

 

[rolande]

The experience of resistance occurring in South Africa was 5-7 years. No?

European honeybees?

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

European honeybees?

Yes, Apis mellifera. 2 x sub species = Am capensis and Am scutelata. Resistance throughout South Africa

 

[enrico]

Hi.
If anyone is saying they don't have Varroa, then they are living in cloud Cuckoo land. I have Varroa, every colony has. But I and the Bee's manage them.
Part of My IMP is Mite counting, which I do 4 times a year or sooner if the colony is showing any signs of any sort of trouble.
I have two, possible three colony's which have very low counts all year round. Are the bee's Hygienic Bee's, meaning they are dealing with the mites themselves. Possibly, Yes. But it's not yet proven that they have reached the leave of what I'd call Hygienic Bees, but they seem to be getting on with it.
I've never used any type of treatment yet, but i'd infidelity not do it just to see a bigger mite drop, as there are other ways to check on mite levels.
I your getting drops of thousands then you are in trouble, i'd say it was time to try something else. By the way you are using different treatments every year aren't you. If not then you'll have bees that are resistant to the treatment you are using, you need to switch them about to avoid this.

Trust me, I know how to deal with varroa. 45 years of experience helps. I was trying to point out that maybe you had more varroa than you could possibly assess by your methods. Let me know when you need help

 

[rolande]

OK, I wasn't clear enough with the usage of 'European' but used it as I'm sure most practical beekeepers do. Basically the resistance was found amongst capensis and scutelata neither of which would be welcomed in the UK due to some pretty unacceptable traits; traits which no doubt played a part in the resistance mechanism.

 

[pargyle]

Insert boards get a bad rap! They are a rough quantitative guide, taken from 100% of the colony, non-invasive, available all year around, labour intensive potentially but provide a wealth of other information. And provide a floor if that’s one’s preference. They do need interpretation as to what is going on in the colony.

Sugar rolls are a rougher guide of mites only. Extrapolated from a sample of sub 1% of the colony. Available only during open season.

Whilst I agree with the inspection board being a useful indicator of what is going on in the hive ... I've counted mites on the board and I've done many, many, sugar rolls and I've compared the two ... I know which I prefer to give me a true indication of the varroa levels .... and it's not the inspection board. Unless, of course, you do a treatment and then look at the forced drop on the board.

 

[Blunt Spike]

By the way you are using different treatments every year aren't you. If not then you'll have bees that are resistant to the treatment you are using, you need to switch them about to avoid this.

Forgive my ignorance, but surely you are treating the mites not the bees. If we get bees that are resistant to or not harmed by the treatment, that has to be aim? If that isn't the aim we could just use concrete hives and treat with petrol and a match... better known as the Australian method.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes, Apis mellifera. 2 x sub species = Am capensis and Am scutelata. Resistance throughout South Africa

Believe you me, they are totally different to European honeybees. Only a fool would think any different

 

[JamezF]

Believe you me, they are totally different to European honeybees. Only a fool would think any different

Absolutely. European honeybees can't carry coconuts, for a start.

James

 

[rolande]

Absolutely. European honeybees can't carry coconuts, for a start.

James

?

 

[Erichalfbee]

?

Python

 

[JamezF]

Python

Good point. European honeybees can't carry pythons either.

James

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

OK, I wasn't clear enough with the usage of 'European' but used it as I'm sure most practical beekeepers do. Basically the resistance was found amongst capensis and scutelata neither of which would be welcomed in the UK due to some pretty unacceptable traits; traits which no doubt played a part in the resistance mechanis

The resistant traits are the same in the other subspecies; Amm, Aml etc.... After 30+ years of Varroa in the UK, we see the same resistance traits here.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The resistant traits are the same in the other subspecies; Amm, Aml etc.... After 30+ years of Varroa in the UK, we see the same resistance traits here.

Well going by your pet theory - if S African subspecies=European, since after three years Capensis and S African Adansonii were resistant country, then after thirty years all European bees should be totally immune to Varroa. They're obviously not therefore your theories firmly sit on the shelf

 

[rolande]

Well going by your pet theory - if S African subspecies=European, since after three years Capensis and S African Adansonii were resistant country, then after thirty years all European bees should be totally immune to Varroa. They're obviously not therefore your theories firmly sit on the shelf

I've been trying to not say too much as this is an introduction thread but, yeah, *that*.

 

[pargyle]

Well .... Chris has not been seen on here since Post #20. I hope he has just been busy and we have not discouraged a new member from posting or participating ....

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

I've been trying to not say too much as this is an introduction thread but, yeah, *that*.

Resistance has taken longer in the UK and Europe as beekeepers have treated, understandably, and not selected for Varroa resistant traits, which is education and training

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

Well .... Chris has not been seen on here since Post #20. I hope he has just been busy and we have not discouraged a new member from posting or participating ....

Sorry Chris. You are most welcome. Please try and ignore the toxic commentator. Come on Mods, sort that out!

 

[enrico]

Well .... Chris has not been seen on here since Post #20. I hope he has just been busy and we have not discouraged a new member from posting or participating ....

To be honest, with his five years experience, he seems to believe he knows alot!

 

[pargyle]

To be honest, with his five years experience, he seems to believe he knows alot!

We are all entitled to believe what we believe to be true ... and equally to be challenged by those who do not share our beliefs. There is a thin(k) line between challenging an idea and being offensive. There are a few on here who need to think before they hit the post button and keep it to the facts ....

I'm fine with being challenged ... goodness only knows I've faced that almost since the day I joined ...but veiled or oblique insults verge on bullying and we should all be careful not to cross that line.