After reading through the Renegade beekeeper in Stirlingshire thread

[Anduril]

At risk of hijacking the thread: 'conservationist' beekeepers are as much concerned for wild honey bees as for the bees in their hives. They try to avoid obstructing the natural development of resistance in those bees living freely around them by not medicating or otherwise helping the bees intheir care. They consider the thing in their care to be the local breeding population. Recognising the benefits of local adaptation, they don't buy in queens, but raise their own.

Some have adapted feral (wild) bees around them, and simply plug into the ambient genetics. Other don't. To overcome most obstances you you can work in concert with others (local breeding groups).

It is often the case that you _can_ do things to help wild bees. That in turn helps the local ecology around you. 'Your' bees are the bees around you as well as the ones in your hives. 'Our bees' are wild bees as a group. Like the rest of the ecology, they belong to all of us, and to future generations.

That is the perspective of this particular conservationist-minded beekeeper.

We are all conservationist beekeepers! That is the label that has been given to all of us. I started back in the 1980's pre-varroa. Back in the days when it was very rare to administer treatment. So I would be a forerunner, who chose to do things quietly and without drawing attention to myself. But can you be 100% sure that your bees are wild bees and not originally from a hive? Bees are not classed as domesticated, all bees are wild and they have a classification as livestock.
So as you say 'Our bees' are wild bees as a group. Like the rest of the ecology, they belong to all of us, and to future generations. This applies to all beekeepers and not a selective group. There are no tensions, we have the same goals.

 

[Beesnaturally]

We are all conservationist beekeepers! That is the label that has been given to all of us. I started back in the 1980's pre-varroa. Back in the days when it was very rare to administer treatment. So I would be a forerunner, who chose to do things quietly and without drawing attention to myself. But can you be 100% sure that your bees are wild bees and not originally from a hive? Bees are not classed as domesticated, all bees are wild and they have a classification as livestock.
So as you say 'Our bees' are wild bees as a group. Like the rest of the ecology, they belong to all of us, and to future generations. This applies to all beekeepers and not a selective group. There are no tensions, we have the same goals.

A commercial operation has the goal of making, and usually maximising, income. If it benefits a farmer to remove hedges to make larger fields, that's what they will do. They have to to remain competitive. Some may feel a sadness at the loss, other may be gleeful at the removal of nesting opportunities for songbirds that eat their crops.

That tension underlies all habitat destruction, from the UK to the Amazon.

If you can't see that I can't offer any help, except to say: we have heard and read so often that we beekeepers are the guardians and saviours of the world's food supply that we long ago fell for the narrative. Mostly the story is driven by people who want to sell something bee related.

 

[bingevader]

I see an old thread has resurfaced and browsing through it I came across this which pretty well sums up my thoughts.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/supercedure-and-swarm-cells-at-the-same-time.50855/post-777515

In defence of the present mods, it's a lot better on here now than it used to be!
Change takes time, it's happening slowly.

 

[pargyle]

In defence of the present mods, it's a lot better on here now than it used to be!
Change takes time, it's happening slowly.

THANK YOU - We think so too ....

 

[Erichalfbee]

In defence of the present mods, it's a lot better on here now than it used to be!
Change takes time, it's happening slowly.

Thank you from me too.

 

[Anduril]

A commercial operation has the goal of making, and usually maximising, income. If it benefits a farmer to remove hedges to make larger fields, that's what they will do. They have to to remain competitive. Some may feel a sadness at the loss, other may be gleeful at the removal of nesting opportunities for songbirds that eat their crops.

That tension underlies all habitat destruction, from the UK to the Amazon.

If you can't see that I can't offer any help, except to say: we have heard and read so often that we beekeepers are the guardians and saviours of the world's food supply that we long ago fell for the narrative. Mostly the story is driven by people who want to sell something bee related.

Before Covid at the Welsh Beekeepers Convention, there was a talk about treatment free beekeeping, from North Wales and 2 lads from Leicestershire. They wanted the NBU representatives there, to champion Treatment free. The problem with this is that beginners will become disheartened when their bees die out, especially after investing a lot of money on beekeeping equipment. Everyone has a different outlook on how they propose to go about their individual experience. There have been grants here in the UK, to plant trees, hedgerows and orchards. Not all commercial operations have the same goals or ethics, this is what diversity is all about. Some of the food you eat, sets better with pollination, so we shouldn't vilify bee farmers who are doing a service the amateur cannot achieve.
You are trying to entice me down many rabbit holes as you flit from one idea to the next, it started with beekeepers allegedly having tensions with bee farmers. We need to coexist with each other, being charitable and altruistic. We have not fallen for any narrative, the driving force is the seed industry, which is worth billions, for our pleasure as well as existence. For my part I have helped many beekeepers as well as a friend's son who wants to be a bee farmer. Everyone is allowed their journey!

 

[Beesnaturally]

Before Covid at the Welsh Beekeepers Convention, there was a talk about treatment free beekeeping, from North Wales and 2 lads from Leicestershire. They wanted the NBU representatives there, to champion Treatment free. The problem with this is that beginners will become disheartened when their bees die out, especially after investing a lot of money on beekeeping equipment. Everyone has a different outlook on how they propose to go about their individual experience. There have been grants here in the UK, to plant trees, hedgerows and orchards. Not all commercial operations have the same goals or ethics, this is what diversity is all about. Some of the food you eat, sets better with pollination, so we shouldn't vilify bee farmers who are doing a service the amateur cannot achieve.
You are trying to entice me down many rabbit holes as you flit from one idea to the next, it started with beekeepers allegedly having tensions with bee farmers. We need to coexist with each other, being charitable and altruistic. We have not fallen for any narrative, the driving force is the seed industry, which is worth billions, for our pleasure as well as existence. For my part I have helped many beekeepers as well as a friend's son who wants to be a bee farmer. Everyone is allowed their journey!

Nobody is vilifying bee farmers. My point was, and remains that there are tensions and misunderstandings in the beekeeping world that blow up here because we have different aims and perspectives.

I'm not trying to entice you to do anything. I've been trying to outline and clarify some possibilities in response to your posts. Perhaps it's time to call it a day now.

 

[Anduril]

Nobody is vilifying bee farmers. My point was, and remains that there are tensions and misunderstandings in the beekeeping world that blow up here because we have different aims and perspectives.

I'm not trying to entice you to do anything. I've been trying to outline and clarify some possibilities in response to your posts. Perhaps it's time to call it a day now.

There are no tensions nor misunderstandings, we have the same aims and perspectives, just use a different approach which enriches the craft, allowing newcomers to have a choice of who to turn to that best fits their ideology. But I would agree it is now time to call it a day.