A.m.m. overwintering ability...

[Swarm]

I *was* talking about modern times. Bees survived very well in Europe until humans infected them with foreign diseases and pests by moving colonies around the world.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I *was* talking about modern times. Bees survived very well in Europe until humans infected them with foreign diseases and pests by moving colonies around the world.

yes, we should never have allowed the IOW ferry to dock at portsmouth then A.m.m wouldn't have been wiped out in the early 20th centruary from most of England by I.O.W disease

 

[For want of a better word]

yes, we should never have allowed the IOW ferry to dock at portsmouth then A.m.m wouldn't have been wiped out in the early 20th centruary from most of England by I.O.W disease

Whats brown and comes out of Cowes?

 

[Ian123]

You could just as easily argue bees are net beneficiarys of human interference, as weve spread them around half the world.....

 

[Finman]

You could just as easily argue bees are net beneficiarys of human interference, as weve spread them around half the world.....

You are going to change his sense of humour.

.

 

[Ian123]

Think theres an evens chance man brought them into uk as well.....should we deport them all or Build a wall

 

[Finman]

Think theres an evens chance man brought them into uk as well.....should we deport them all or Build a wall

Like in USA, most illegal emigrants come with airplanes

 

[TooBee...]

Did you try asking whoever wrote the article?

No, I had only just stumbled across the article, but the rest of it's claims are well referenced. the claim that Amm's are better at overwintering is one I've heard a lot, so I assumed there would be some scientific research to back it up.

I thought I was going to get a long list of Research Articles for us to read and argue over... I feel a ra... oh, well never mind

 

[Repwoc]

yes, we should never have allowed the IOW ferry to dock at portsmouth then A.m.m wouldn't have been wiped out in the early 20th centruary from most of England by I.O.W disease

So it was caused by humans then.

 

[Finman]

No, I had only just stumbled across the article, but the rest of it's claims are well referenced. the claim that Amm's are better at overwintering is one I've heard a lot:

Let it be so. It does not harm anybody.

In my country many races go well in cold regions, but plants do no give nectar and pollen there, and there are only few bee plants on cold regions.

 

[TooBee...]

The distinctive climate pattern of the North western boundary of Europe is lower light levels , from both from the latitude and cloud cover. Their natural abode of trees makes the temperature in the depth of winter less of an issue.
in addition is the higher rainfall and lower temperature in SUMMER
One would expect A.m.m. to cope better with cool cloudy rainy conditions for foraging. Success in summer makes for winter survival.

Actually, that sounds extremely sensible, and much more in keeping with why they and not other subspecies have been able to dominate northern continental Europe.

I hear people say A.m.m's fly when it's colder and wetter, I point out that on those days there's little to no nectar and also those days have potentially higher risks for their non-return to the hive ... but IF you think of purging flights, then (assuming that they do have this ability) they can go on purging flights when other bees less inclined to fly in inclement weather cannot; resulting in a healthier status for the colony during longer periods of confinement, such as winter.

Thank you, that's a different way of thinking about this that I hadn't properly considered.

 

[Ian123]

Do you realy think purging flights are an issue when you consider the wide use of Italian bees in the likes of Canada and our very own Finsky whos bees sit indoors for months happily without a crap

 

[TooBee...]

Do you realy think purging flights are an issue when you consider the wide use of Italian bees in the likes of Canada and our very own Finsky whos bees sit indoors for months happily without a crap

Amm's alleged ability to fly in inclement weather is not an advantage for nectar gathering - IF it's an advantage, then it will be for purging flights... I've also seen my bees come out for only 15 minutes for purging flights, so I'm less inclined to say that my bees are / have stayed inside for weeks on end... I was just trying to think through why (if any) the ability to fly in poor weather would be an advantage, I wasn't saying the lack of this ability was an "issue".

 

[Finman]

.
I had 25 years German Black bees, and it had no different abilities than other bees. Perhaps they wintered in smaller cluster, because they swarmed so much.

I have had Black bees, Caucasians, Carniolans, Elgons, Italians and Buckfasts. They all stand our cold winter.

It is just now out -25C
.

 

[Poly Hive]

My experience of their wintering was that it could be poor and at times really poor. There is the propaganda and the reality.

I can think of three beefarms who switched a bit quick from them after on winter when allegedly one of the units went from over 1000 colonies to a handful.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

My experience of their wintering was that it could be poor and at times really poor. There is the propaganda and the reality.

I can think of three beefarms who switched a bit quick from them after on winter when allegedly one of the units went from over 1000 colonies to a handful.

PH

OK.... but a couple of years back along a Beefarmer in Devon lost nearly all their C lineage( Medditeranean imports / hybrids) stock overwinter... possibly because they did not see any need to feed them.... and then went crying cap in hand to the government to help them out with restocking.... allegedly!!!

 

[Finman]

.
90% out if Finlands hives are Italian.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am not knocking your stock as I have no knowledge of them. I am pointing out that there can and have been issues with the bee. It's quite wrong to say there are no problems and put them on a pedestal BIBBA style. Most have never had any experience of them including BIBBA.

I would also point out there is a hell of a climate difference between balmy Cornwall and Aberdeenshire/Kincardinshire.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

I am not knocking your stock as I have no knowledge of them. I am pointing out that there can and have been issues with the bee. It's quite wrong to say there are no problems and put them on a pedestal BIBBA style. Most have never had any experience of them including BIBBA.

PH

To be fair it seems there can be "issues" with any type of bee.

At one point in our past, if there was a livestock or crop failure, the local populous would find a witch to burn....

sometimes I think some of us have not moved much far on !!!

 

[TooBee...]

I'm starting to form the opinion that it's the amount of Fat Reserves (relative to body size) and the quality of these Fat Reserves, that are more important than actual clustering ability (although that's important as well).

Isn't the Pollen used to build up Fat Reserves?

I remember reading an article (small sample I think) that showed that Amm's collected Pollen from a wide variety of plants, as opposed to some other types of bees. A varied diet may be better quality Fat for Overwintering...?

So does anyone know of Research into Fat Reserves of bees, and then Fat Reserves of different Subspecies of bees compared, and even going as far as comparing the quality of these Fat Reserves?

PS: Still have the strongest opinion that overwintering success (ability of the bee) is primarily based on the actions of the Beekeeper - including the set up of the hive, and treatments... etc.