whats happening to the price of sugar??

[BBG]

Haven't heard that one yet,

Windmills as in Dutch or local?

Off to the big city this w/e so hope everybody behaves.

Cheers!

 

[BKF Admin]

If Sugar is up then why is honey not up as well ?

 

[mbc]

If Sugar is up then why is honey not up as well ?

good point, well made !

 

[Onge]

If Sugar is up then why is honey not up as well ?

Mine is and I don't feed sugar. /tin hat on.

 

[mbc]

Either you aren't based at the place the side banner says or Wales has declared UDI.

Last time I checked Wales was part of Britain, both politically and geographically.

If onlyView attachment 5723

 

[Dishmop]

If Sugar is up then why is honey not up as well ?

Thats an easy problem to solve....

Just spread a rumour that there will be a shortage fo honey this year..

 

[Into the lions den]

Just spread a rumour that there will be a shortage fo honey this year..

lol...but were it that simple.

In 2011 basically that is what happened and unlike in 2010 when it WAS true, in 2011 it was not so over much of England. Those of us on the north east fringes had a dire year of all dire years, but we are just bit part players in the UK game. The key areas had a half decent harvest.

However, the beekeepers decided, albeit with some input from other parties such as the Co-op, who completely misread the market, that the price should stay the same as in 2010 for blossom honey, when there was nothing like the national shortage of the year before.

Throw in an economic crisis, and its effect on the market in speciality honey types. All speciality honey varieties, other than in small niche markets, are suffering reduced sales, and a consumer switch back to cheapest is the main move in the market right now.

So, we have honey pitched at a price the packers will not and cannot pay, as the retailers will just delist the lines due to slow sales. We have beekeepers holding out for last years price but with plenty stock. So we arrive at today, where there is a big inventory of last years honey lying unsold at the packers and stockholders, and in some cases still with the beekeeper who thinks he will get a better rate. Now we have the new season around the corners and hundreds of tonnes lying unsold from 2011.

There is a price crash coming. It will be a small crash if 2012 is a moderate to poor year. If it is average or better it will be a big crash.

Ship out your old seasons stock at a decent price while you still can. At bulk prices 2011 blossom honey is on a downward price slope. If you can get 1.80/lb grab it.......if you can get 1.60 try to negotiate but still consider taking it. If its a good season in 2012 1.60 will be a good price, and it is likely to be lower than that due to the stock carryover.

Many will not like that message, indeed I do not like it myself, but, as with the sugar information, this is from trade insiders who are very reliable. The days of 2.00/lb blossom honey in bulk are behind us for the time being.

The talking up of a shortage in 2011 has turned round and is biting us all on the rear end.............

 

[mbc]

There is a price crash coming. It will be a small crash if 2012 is a moderate to poor year. If it is average or better it will be a big
Ship out your old seasons stock at a decent price while you still can. At bulk prices 2011 blossom honey is on a downward price slope. If you can get 1.80/lb grab it.......if you can get 1.60 try to negotiate but still consider taking it. If its a good season in 2012 1.60 will be a good price, and it is likely to be lower than that due to the stock carryover.

Many will not like that message, indeed I do not like it myself, but, as with the sugar information, this is from trade insiders who are very reliable. The days of 2.00/lb blossom honey in bulk are behind us for the time being.

The talking up of a shortage in 2011 has turned round and is biting us all on the rear end.............

Surely not, however good the coming season will be there will still be a massive shortage of quality homegrown honey. We are alomost guaranteed this by being an overcrowded island nation of over 60 million individuals, many of whome would like some british honey.

 

[johnandyrob]

Does it not depend on quantity of honey and your target market.

 

[Poly Hive]

It all depends on price and ITLD is very aware of the wholesale market.

Whether a price drop would affect the "local" market remains to be seen but believe me people are VERY price concious right now, I find that every day in my business.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

Surely not, however good the coming season will be there will still be a massive shortage of quality homegrown honey. We are alomost guaranteed this by being an overcrowded island nation of over 60 million individuals, many of whom would like some british honey.

Most, sadly, are not fussy. Yes there is a mass market out there that would probably quite like to buy British............but to oust the cheaper imported honey from its place in the market you will need to sell at under 70p/lb.

Currently there is NO shortage. If you want stock I can steer you to big tonnages available and unsold right now, and at current rate of sales there will still be three figures of tonnes left unsold as the new seasons hits the trade...........to me that does not equate to a 'massive shortage'.

True we produce far less than we eat. True there is a feelgood factor towards home produced. That all clients will choose on origin rather than price is false. Only way to grow the market share, which means getting serious exposure in the multiples, is to become more competitive...........which equals lower price.

 

[drstitson]

The average great british consumer doesn't care a hoot about quality or provenance.

Happy to feed the family on rubbish so long at it is a bargain.

Don't want to have to cut spending on fags, booze, scratchcards and skysports.

The implications for the health of generations to come are dire - many of the health inequalities we see today are down to general dietary conditions 100+ years ago (North vs South of UK and South vs North of USA).

One of the key features of the healthy mediterranean diet is the fact that expensive/quality produce is eaten BUT in moderation (by necessity). The amount of meat per portion of pasta sauce is tiny (NB my traditional Bolognese mince mix costs at least €16 per kilo). Proper charcuterie/proscuitto costs anything upto €1 per thin slice (rather than the <£4 per kilo for UK porcessed "ham").

 

[mbc]

Only way to grow the market share, which means getting serious exposure in the multiples, is to become more competitive...........which equals lower price.

I'm not sure about exposing my multiples , but the undervalued price of genuine wildflower honey would have no trouble at all maintaining or even increasing its price if beefarmers stopped trying to get the same inflated price for their OSR honey, which though still nice honey,. doesnt really compare in quality and flavour to the real deal. The informed punter isnt stupid.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The average great british consumer doesn't care a hoot about quality or provenance.

Happy to feed the family on rubbish so long at it is a bargain.

Don't want to have to cut spending on fags, booze, scratchcards and skysports.

So true,alas.
There is a market here every Tuesday and there is a stall....large bus actually...piled high with prepacked plastic looking meat at ridiculously low prices. Most of it has to be reached with one of those hooks on a pole,there's so much of it. It's mobbed by young women puffing away on their fags with toddlers in tow.
On the last Friday of the month there is a farmers' market. The meat/poultry stalls are local and the stallholders happily discuss their wares. It's popular but not mobbed. I would sell my honey there but the rent is prohibitive. Free rent once a month for local mini producers would be a good step in the right direction.

 

[Andy Duff]

One of the key features of the healthy mediterranean diet is the fact that expensive/quality produce is eaten BUT in moderation (by necessity). The amount of meat per portion of pasta sauce is tiny (NB my traditional Bolognese mince mix costs at least €16 per kilo). Proper charcuterie/proscuitto costs anything upto €1 per thin slice (rather than the <£4 per kilo for UK porcessed "ham").

Careful on this one DrS. Have you ever seen what is put into traditional Northern Italian cuisine?
A few examples of the goodies they liberally chuck in are-
Lard, salted butter, bone marrow, cream and more cream, red wine, eggs, oh and a bit more butter. I think I am going into cardiac arre,,,,,,,,,,,,,............................

 

[porterswoods]

At our local fetes and fairs last year I gave away my eggs, in half dozen boxes. This was primarily to attract new custom to my shop. However as I have so many hens customers expect to see a cheaper price than my neighbours. I sell them at £2 a dozen and I sell upwards of 50 dozen a day. Another 20 pence, same a my neighbour, and that undermine my competitiveness and I lose custom.

The same goes for any commodity, including honey, which is what Into The Lions Den has already said.

The price of sugar has probably gone up due to the poor UK harvest conditions last year and poorer yeilds this year.

 

[Into the lions den]

I'm not sure about exposing my multiples , but the undervalued price of genuine wildflower honey would have no trouble at all maintaining or even increasing its price if beefarmers stopped trying to get the same inflated price for their OSR honey, which though still nice honey,. doesnt really compare in quality and flavour to the real deal. The informed punter isnt stupid.

Of course they are different, but the bad news is that there is a lot more wildflower out there, with clover, sycamore and lime tones in it (delicious of course) on the international market than there is of OSR.

We have the palate of the converted, and we all have our favourite honey types (mines is Bell heather). However, we, the beekeepers, are a tiny minority and our tastes are not a true reflection of the mass market, rather a small niche market.

There is sensational and subtle wildflower honey out there from most of the major European honey countries, available in large quantities and at a price generally slightly below that of OSR (talking a whisker lower). The very nicest wildflower I ever tasted came out of Quebec, and was essentially a raspberry/basswood(lime) mix with other minor sources in it too. Which brings us to the nub of the issue. What every one of us feels to be the nicest honey is generally one we are familiar with, and the statement 'the best honey in the world comes from around here' is one you hear in various places all over the world. I am a Scot, from the historic raspberry area, so MY taste favours this rasp/lime mix.

Once you go outwith your local market this advantage is partially lost and you come up against a whole raft of producers with exactly the same thing to say. You will not agree that theirs is as good as yours, and the same will apply in reverse. Beekeepers and their local tastes, and showbench criteria, have little value outwith our little, often inward looking, community. The general public have a different set of tastes once you go beyond niche markets (ie the local farmers market).

Well processed OSR is a lovely honey btw..........must be very smooth and soft set, and have met little or no heat. Once it has been mishandled it is not at all appealling. But why do honeys like OSR and Acacia have such a big market? Its actually their very blandness that makes their market. Its honey for people who actually are not fond of honey in general, which sadly means most clients. Bland = mass market...........strong or intense flavour = niche market. We are probably all (forum members that is) from the niche market side.

The idea that we can replace more of the imports with local is fine, and can be made to work, but not at todays price levels. To the public it is not really relevant whether your honey is indeed gloriously subtle wildflower or OSR (more normally a blend of the two, either natural or tank made), to get up beyond that 10% of the market you have to take the ground currently occupied by the next slice down of the cake.......................back to the original point at post 1............that means a price drop.

 

[Dishmop]

Problem in this nation of shopkeepers is that we have forgotten how to do it.
Sales drop a bit and natural reaction is to increase prices to maintain same standard of living.. Result.. even less sales.

Asking for too much profit per unit sale.

Petrol and diesel prices........ What nationality are the owners who sell the cheapest fuel where you live? Either born in UK or nationalised Asians. They've got it right.... Lower resale prices, slightly less profit per unit but more turnover. Result? increased profit.

Pound Land.. They pay the same wholesale price as other shops but dont mark up as much..


Not sure if it was Napoleon or Churchill who said "Beware when China awakes"

 

[Andy Duff]

Not sure if it was Napoleon or Churchill who said "Beware when China awakes"

China woke up, and now has all the money!

 

[Dishmop]

China woke up, and now has all the money!