vsh - form your own opinion

[B+.]

form your own opinion:

https://www.ars.usda.gov/southeast-...cs/varroa-sensitive-hygiene-vsh-publications/

 

[Finman]

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More thinking


Mite-Resistant Russian Honey Bees Might Not Prevent Varroa Infestations

11.4.2017
https://entomologytoday.org/2017/04...y-bees-might-not-prevent-varroa-infestations/

But recent research suggests that the mite population in a bee colony is not solely dependent on mite reproduction within the colony; it also depends on mites being introduced from outside the colony. Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman, Ph.D., a research leader at the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center and first author on the Russian honey bee study says mites can enter the colony by hitching rides on foraging workers.



NEXT
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18613562


J Econ Entomol. 2008 Jun;101(3):654-9.

Comparative performance of two mite-resistant stocks of honey bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae) in Alabama beekeeping operations

The total percentages of colonies needing treatment against varroa mites were 12% of VSH, 24% of Russian, and 40% of Italian. The total percentages requiring treatment against tracheal mites were 1% of Russian, 8% of VSH and 12% of Italian.

Finman conclusioin: so, 12 % out of Russian and 24% out of VSH were in danger to die for varroa. Big losses if you do nothing.

https://academic.oup.com/jee/article-abstract/110/3/809/3072898

1 June 2017

Russian honey bee and other mite-resistant stocks limit Varroa population growth by affecting factors that contribute to mite reproduction. However, mite population growth is not entirely due to reproduction. Numbers of foragers with mites (FWM) entering and leaving hives also affect the growth of mite populations. If FWM significantly contribute to Varroa population growth, mite numbers in RHB colonies might not differ from unselected lines (USL).

And so on....
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[B+.]

Right now, most beekeepers in the UK don't have high expression of VSH in their colonies. Most don't even have hygienic behavior. I have provided the link above, without any commentary, so that people can inform themselves and form their own opinion free from any bias I may have. Clearly, there are other views and readers should ask themselves :
Is the source credible?
Is the information relevant?
Is the information current?
Previously, I have condensed my reading into my own opinion on what I have read and what I believe to be achievable. This is an example of some of the "stuff" that has shaped those views.
I leave it to you to do your own reading now, but, beware of those who would say the status quo is good enough.

 

[Fusion_power]

the status quo is good enough.

Constants aren't, variables don't, the only constant is change.

It is hard to change bee think here in the U.S. UK bee think will be orders of magnitude more difficult. Finman will probably have to die before Finland's bee think changes. I'm using "bee think" to represent the embedded resistance to change that most beekeepers have toward doing anything different from what they are already doing.

Finman, you are pointing out the weakness of any mite resistance breeding effort. A stable set of conditions are needed to evaluate performance. Horizontal mite transfer via foraging bees throws a wild card into the mix. B+ may have 8000 mites in his VSH colony. Did they reproduce in that colony? Did they migrate into the hive on foraging bees?

 

[Finman]

Finman will probably have to die before Finland's bee think changes. ?

My age is 70. Propably I must die soon

But Fusion. The issue is in USA, not in Finland. Everyone treat here their hives. We do not have Russian bees or VSH bees. Our bees are OK.

We do not have 20% winter dead rate, and not 20% dead rate in summer.

I have nothing to with US mite problem. I tried to teach mite control in Beemaster forum, but it was full of do nothing guys.

?

Finman, you are pointing out the weakness of any mite resistance breeding effort. ?

I have got an education of biological researcher. They teached me to dig the truth from reality.
My 20 years long education would be rubbish if I believe all what you try to se compose to all of us.

I loaned US university researchers. You could read them too.


?

Horizontal mite transfer via foraging bees throws a wild card into the mix. ?

That is a good composition.

?

B+ may have 8000 mites in his VSH colony. Did they reproduce in that colony? Did they migrate into the hive on foraging bees?

8000 is not possible. You mean that B+ has worked for nothing?
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[Fusion_power]

8000 is not possible. You mean that B+ has worked for nothing

This is just hypothetical. Based on the numbers he posted, there are probably less than 2000 and could be under 1000.

 

[Finman]

This is just hypothetical. Based on the numbers he posted, there are probably less than 2000 and could be under 1000.

Such bet. I do not know my own mites. How could I know others'

.

 

[Finman]

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IT is said everywhere, that breeding hygienic or VSH bees you need a closed mating station. Anti varroa features does work in hybrids.

Fusion has special bees. Mating is open. His bees make environment's bees antivarroa. That is new to science.

 

[Finman]

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What means 8 000 mites in a hive.

16 000 bees occupy one langstroth box.

1000 mites is a critical limit in a hive.
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[Erichalfbee]

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What means 8 000 mites in a hive.

16 000 bees occupy one langstroth box.

1000 mites is a critical limit in a hive.
.

Yes, strange, that oft quoted figure.
I am vaping most of my colonies and in 12 days one of them has dropped 2300 mites

 

[SDM]

Yes, strange, that oft quoted figure.
I am vaping most of my colonies and in 12 days one of them has dropped 2300 mites

Sounds like you are catching them at the point of population explosion.

 

[SDM]

Constants aren't, variables don't, the only constant is change.

It is hard to change bee think here in the U.S. UK bee think will be orders of magnitude more difficult. Finman will probably have to die before Finland's bee think changes.

It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks especially after decades of chanting "100kgs per hive, 100kgs per hive".
But I think you've got the US and UK in reverse. We've almost universally (in a UK sense) accepted mesh floors which are still scorned by many in the US, poly hives are not considered some dark art here. We've got used to looking to the rest of the world for ways forward. American Beekeepers still have a way to go to accept that how they do things may well play a part in their 40% annual losses. They're still trying to blame anything and anyone rather than look at their own practices.
That said we have our share of dinosaurs wandering the earth still.

 

[Fusion_power]

we have our share of dinosaurs wandering the earth still.

I got a chuckle from this.

I'm happy with 60 kg from a single hive. I don't use screen bottoms because they are not needed with mite resistant bees. I agree that poly hives have some potential that I need to look at more closely. I am in a moderate climate which means wooden hives perform fairly well as compared with Northern U.S. locations that have snow and extended winters.

U.S. beekeepers are highly resistant to changing the genetics of the bees they keep. With just 3 years of dedicated work, all bees in the U.S. could be mite resistant. I suspect the U.K. will be just as averse to change when they have the option of using natural resistance to varroa.

How many of you would be happy to trial highly mite resistant (not just VSH) queens presuming you could get them?

 

[Beefriendly]

How many of you would be happy to trial highly mite resistant (not just VSH) queens presuming you could get them?

If they are of the caliber of queens that B+ uses people would fight to get hold of them.
The problem, as I often allude to, is availability of such queens. And as I don't think I'm in B+'s good books at the moment my chances of an open mated F1 from one of his breeder queens are pretty slim.

In the UK the only commercially available hygienic bees (from LASI) showed hygienic behaviour, not VSH and are currently unavailable as the colonies are infected with EFB.

 

[Finman]

Highly resistant? A new term .

What is the price?

Have you taught that varroa develope too. Highly Suc King bug.

 

[SDM]

How many of you would be happy to trial highly mite resistant (not just VSH) queens presuming you could get them?

Speaking personally if they were a match for my bees in other areas , I'd jump on the chance. Would I be interested if they were prone to aggression, swarmy, poor producers, no.
To be fair I don't find treatment much of a hassle.
I think there would be an outcry from the black bee community ( unless of course they were vsh Amm) . I don't have a racial preference in my bees or other areas( dogs perhaps) and I'm a relatively new Beekeeper, so how I do things is still adapting to what I find is best practice.
I'm hoping I'll keep an open mind permanently.

 

[Finman]

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What Fusion has told about his Highly Resistant bees

- small colonies
- high swarming
- not very productive

- poor wintering because cluster is small
- slow build up in spring


Conclusion: Mite control is very expencive. Lets say 40 kg less honey. Control cost 400 $/hive.
With that cost you may buy every spring new hives even if the hives die.

 

[B+.]

Conclusion: Mite control is very expencive. Lets say 40 kg less honey. Control cost 400 $/hive.
With that cost you may buy every spring new hives even if the hives die.

beware of those who would say the status quo is good enough.

hmmm ;-)

 

[Finman]

Beware... Yeah, I am

That own opinion. Wise man is quiet when collective truth is better.

 

[maddydog]

How many of you would be happy to trial highly mite resistant (not just VSH) queens presuming you could get them?

I imagine a fair few who read this forum. The problem is there will be 1000's of Finski's 'do nothing guys' who're not bothered.

LASI's queens don't seem to have taken the world by storm so outcomes like that don't help the cause.