usual Euro b.....s

[Brosville]

I really resent the utter nonsense about "GM activists" - it's alarmist cobblers that could have come direct from Monsanto - the plain fact of the matter is that Europe historically doesn't want the damn technology, and there is a concerted effort by the US to force us to accept it.
If there is any "manipulation" going on it's by the GM companies and their cohorts and supporters, and that manipulation is of the truth at every level - the simple answer to this problem is to ban the damn stuff from being grown in Europe - we don't need it, we don't want it, and I'm frankly sick and fed up to the back teeth with their concerted efforts to muscle it onto the market by every crooked means they can - if it is grown it removes the right of everyone NOT to have the damn stuff in their crops, and all the weasellisms about us "sharing genetic codes" with other living creatures only underlines the fact that GM is truly frankenstinian in it's aims and reality - idiots playing god when they have not the slightest clue as to the possible ramifications of their crude tinkerings....

If anyone is "being used as the connon fodder in this issue" (sic), the whole public are being bamboozled by GM Megacorp.Inc - I've seldom read such nonsense (outside the GM companies' own handouts)

 

[Into the lions den]

I think you need to lie down in a quiet room and take your medication.

Its all way too late. GM pollen is in the stratosphere and will even be in your beloved tbh's, albeit in barely detectable quantities.

There are lots of things we have apparent 'rights' to be free of, and you can list almost any one of dozens of things. My personal bugbear is catching a whiff of other peoples ciggy smoke. I have an apparent 'right' to be free of that, yet the smoker has the 'right' to smoke...........conflicting rights. Methinks many of these claimed rights are actually impractical ideals that often conflict with other impractical ideals. If it truly is a right rather than an indignation then it will be enshrined in law?

Personally I have no great beef with eating GM products and will happily do so, and many of us do already. Having seen the microbiological analyses of some organic products I am more suspicious of many of those.

and we ARE being maniplulated by the anti groupings................AND by the pro groupings............................and you do not need to add in GM there...can be almost any topic starting with standpoints on politics and religion. Thats life.

Off to eat some GM soya burgers. I reckon I have a right to...............

 

[Brosville]

No, there is a very clear distinction - if you choose to have GM frankencrap in your diet, you remove the right of others not to have their food polluted by it - in your terms, you're blowing smoke in their faces when they really don't want it - that is wrong in every way!

"Its all way too late" - not in Europe it isn't - as I said, we don't want it or need it - the only people to gain are the GM companies and their shareholders, and we should fight back against the tyranny of the US corporations trying to force it upon us - I'm not ready to roll over and let them take control of our food production (which is what this is really about)

"Impractical ideals" - utter pollocks! - all it is doing is saying "NO" to Big Ag for once - we may not be able to get the top back on Pandora's box for much of the world, but we can keep Europe relatively free of it

 

[Into the lions den]

We are talking about a ruling regarding honey labelling, a ruling which WILL if implemented have all our honey regarded as suspect by a sector of the population.

It is a serious threat to the future of beekeeping in Europe and elsewhere. Period. GM is here, no matter where in the world it grows its airborne pollen will be around. Europe is not on another planet.

Is the honey any worse than it was before the change? No. It is utter nonsense, and to hail it as any kind of triumph is tragic, as the repercussions for the majority of the honey supply, and by dint of loss of market also to the bees that produce it, are potentially massive. But then from the drift of your postings I doubt you care a damn about the fate of anyone who does not support your view, as it is more important to you not to have that GM pollen grain in your food than for good nutritious honey to be available to all.

Apoplectic postings do you no good, and if you think anyone who does not share your zeal is by default a GM monkey then you are sadly mistaken. Not going to engage further with you on this issue as plainly the fate of the bees and their keepers are way down the list of your priorities.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Murray,so if Rowse would like to buy all the English honey they can,but are not buying it because they cannot sell it,then why don't they lower their prices so it does sell.

 

[Brosville]

I have a feeling that my comments have hit the mark, and ITLD bitterly resents it.. - I care passionately about bees, and the environment in general - it is under onslaught from all sorts of directions, usually in the pursuit of profits at all costs by the big multinational corporations..

"it is more important to you not to have that GM pollen grain in your food than for good nutritious honey to be available to all" is frankly bitter, twisted nonsense - my concern is that there is a planet left that is fit for our grandchildren to live on, in my view, honey is best without "pollutants", be they GMOs, pesticides, pharmaceuticals, or any other of the myriad threats in the modern world - and we should all strive to provide truly good and nutritious food of all sorts whilst preserving the environment for the generations to come
Many of us view GMOs as a "step too far", and I'm frankly in some disbelief that you are so ready to accept (seemingly willingly) the onward march of frankencrap, and you get dreadfully upset that anyone should dare have the temerity to question the right of the GM brigade to force their rubbish upon us, and stoop to name-calling, and suggestions that we need some form of tranquilliser for having the sheer cheek to stand in the way of Monsanto's juggernaut....

 

[Into the lions den]

Murray,so if Rowse would like to buy all the English honey they can,but are not buying it because they cannot sell it,then why don't they lower their prices so it does sell.

The major producers (who are the ones who actually set the market level) are holding out for a high price thinking that supply is short (of English Blossom it is not as short as they think). The multiples, who buy most of the Rowse product will not pay the price that would have to be charged to them given the cost of the raw honey supply.

In this Rowse are a sort of middle man..........the supermarket will not buy at the beekeepers price..the beekeeper will not sell at the price needed to meet the supermarkets needs.....market stuck. Remains to be seen what will give first. Cannot truly expect Rowse to pay high and sell low and take a loss, when in truth their margins are already pretty slender. When the market wants the honey Rowse will buy and pack. A price cut has to be al the way up the chain to the beekeeper. It is not Rowses job to absorb it all.

Prices are on the drift for blossom honey. It will hit equilibrium in the near future I suspect and then the buyers will come in for it. Meanwhile a certain Manx gent is stock building, even though he too must source with an eye on what the market is likely to be like in 6 months or more.

 

[For want of a better word]

and there are STILL traces of DDT in our food.......................

 

[mbc]

Prices are on the drift for blossom honey.
.

Not surprising really as there seems to be no distinction between "blossom"( osr/field bean ) and genuine wildflower honey. Perhaps producers should readjust their expectations about the true value of the bulk of their honey

 

[Brosville]

A very apposite comment from across the pond by a contributor to "another beekeeping forum" on this very subject

"I wonder how long before Monsanto tries to prosecute beeks for stealing their proprietary GM pollen without paying them royalties?"

 

[Hivemaker.]

So the English Rowse honey that is selling for around £4.19 for 340g,what price do they need to be paying per 1lb to make any money?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Not surprising really as there seems to be no distinction between "blossom"( osr/field bean ) and genuine wildflower honey. Perhaps producers should readjust their expectations about the true value of the bulk of their honey

I agree,especially after reading on here some of the way out prices some seem to think the stuff is worth.

 

[Into the lions den]

So the English Rowse honey that is selling for around £4.19 for 340g,what price do they need to be paying per 1lb to make any money?

It is really hard to say from the retail level, as retailers run on anything from 30 to 60% margins on slower selling lines, and all honeys are in that class which is worked out in number of units sold per unit frontage in store. Further confused by some counting margin as mark up on purchase price, and some by margin on returns.

However..........lets have a stab.........if the retailer is taking a low range margin.........lets say one third on returns.........round the price to 4.20.....then they pay approx 2.80..........is Rowse the direct vendor? sometimes not, might be a wholesaler like Petty Wood.........

Lets assume it to be direct..........

Rowse will not be working on less than 20% margin on cost of pack.

That brings cost of pack in at about 2.33

from which you must deduct all costs.......jarring, labelling, cartoning, promotional allowances (compulsory if you are a big supplier) and overrider clauses (usually a 3 to 5% rebate to the supermarket if they exceed target sales)

so.........jar and cap and label c0.18
misc overheads and labour......c0.22
overrider c0.08
promotional allowances ??? c0.10?

so...at a guess we have to come down about a further 58p.........so brings us to a cost price for the honey, assuming this to be a low margin outlet, of 1.75 per 12 oz........so about 2.33/lb.

Despite the starting at the wrong end this is not too far from the rate they were actually paying to source in such bulk blossom as they did on the 2010 crop, a bit less if you average out the margins and a medium margin retailer, selling at 4.19 per 12oz will have a buying in rate of around 2.20/lb.

So.....to free up the market it needs to go below that level........and talking to some of those 'in the know' a level of 1.80lb in bulk would seem to be a level that gives hope of getting shelf space back............but these ARE hard times and even at that it is not thought sales would go through the roof. Couldbe the best compromise.

Might seem like vast margins involved but they are actually pretty standard, i have no complaint with them, because Iknow very well that on these margins I would struggle to make it worthwhil packing and distributing myself.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thank you for taking the time to do that breakdown Murray,just seems like people don't have the money to buy luxury foods like honey,as it is not the comercial guys selling in bulk that are expecting to much,and Rowse simply don't want it,even at £1.80lb.

 

[psafloyd]

Has anyone considered drafting a brief letter that could be sent to everyone's MP via writetothem.org?

A response should come back from the MP (because this is monitored and the website always follows up to see if you have heard back) and any activity in the house might be checked in Hansard.

 

[Heather]

I love a volunteer- and vote for you.

And an online petition demanding that they discuss that GM crops are tainting the honey production of the UK??

 

[Poly Hive]

I cannot discuss your area but here in the East Mids we are in recession, and I dinna give a hoot what the pollys claim.

Our room rates are under severe pressure, and looking at the diary for this week I am about to go on line and reduce the room rates to see if I can stimulate trade.

I had a FSB (Federation of small business) quarterly survey a few days ago asking was I more pessimistic or not compared to last quarter and I marked every question down on last quarter.

There is always a market at the top for luxury goods. Where the crunch is here at least is on the third quarter of the market, not the very top as that is near bomb proof but the average person just does not have the disposable income at the moment as family budgets are under enormous strain.

PH

 

[Brosville]

I think the "writetothem" idea is excellent - howsabout also looking at getting a petitition going? - one of those that the government promises to address if it reaches over 100,000 signatures ( http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/)- both need very careful wording... (and choice of department - sadly it looks like DEFRA would be appropriate, but it's run by Caroline "GM lobbyist" Spelman)

 

[Chris Luck]

In my view the more that is kept from supermarkets and sold through smaller local outlets and / or directly from the producer the better. I won't sell into the "pond" although I could, it just wouldn't be satisfying, it would just be industrial - OK of you only do it for money.

I'm also opposed to the growing of GM foods and the creeping global takeover of food production.

Equally to say that GM pollen is floating around in the stratosphere in minuscule quantities and therefore everywhere has nothing to do with this issue because bees aren't collecting it, unlike Maize for example that is taken into hives in large quantities.

Overall I like the judgement and I suspect it could be good for the "little person".

Chris

 

[Storm™]

Being flippant I think you're all looking at this wrong.

Sell a pretty honey jar for £whatever price you charge for honey, and appologise for the jar being dirty and filled with free honey. No? Lol ok.