The truth behind fondants

[Boston Bees]

Be fair, many of us have been reading papers on bees for decades and providing a link to each gossamer thin recollection is a bit much for a friendly discussion forum, this isn't BEE-L

Sorry, but I have a bit of a bugbear with posts that try to prove a point by claiming that "research has shown" something, without specifying which research so anyone can check it. It feels a bit of a lazy attempt to win an argument.

If the recollection of the research is gossamer thin, best not to quote it at all?

If nothing else, we all know that you can find a "scientific" study that proves pretty much any conclusion you want

I suspect these "studies" into fondant and bee lifespan (if they exist) have the same rigour as the studies that "prove" that drinking red wine and eating dark chocolate make you live longer.

 

[mbc]

Sorry, but I have a bit of a bugbear with posts that try to prove a point by claiming that "research has shown" something, without specifying which research so anyone can check it. It feels a bit of a lazy attempt to win an argument.

If the recollection of the research is gossamer thin, best not to quote it at all?

If nothing else, we all know that you can find a "scientific" study that proves pretty much any conclusion you want

I suspect these "studies" into fondant and bee lifespan (if they exist) have the same rigour as the studies that "prove" that drinking red wine and eating dark chocolate make you live longer.

I'm a great believer in drinking beer myself, not sure on the longevity effect on normal people but I'm sure it helps keep me alive

 

[Anduril]

Sorry, but I have a bit of a bugbear with posts that try to prove a point by claiming that "research has shown" something, without specifying which research so anyone can check it. It feels a bit of a lazy attempt to win an argument.

If the recollection of the research is gossamer thin, best not to quote it at all?

If nothing else, we all know that you can find a "scientific" study that proves pretty much any conclusion you want

I suspect these "studies" into fondant and bee lifespan (if they exist) have the same rigour as the studies that "prove" that drinking red wine and eating dark chocolate make you live longer.

This was one discussion, but doesn't include fondant.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/effect-of-feeding-sugar-etc-on-bee-lifespan.48860/

 

[Markthebuilder]

I think we are viewingt are just this the wRongway around we seam to assum products intended for human consumption have to be tested or controlled to a higher level than animal feed ….. they don’t.
The fact that beeks generally pride themselves on being frugal
-(many have to be as they are selling honey for less than£10lb )
I suggest some feel the need to justify feeding their bees with the cheapest product they can and can be quite veracious in defending their choices despite not having any scientific evidence that the “ bees don’t care” has anyone thought to ask.
I have

We are perhaps not the best character of people to judge ourselves or our actions . We are known to use unlicensed products, carry out procedures involving needles . Are influenced by racial stereo types and predidices. And are willing to commit murder.

I personally use bee fondant for all my baking it’s a much better product and I know that it won’t have been made from corn syrup or products contains high HMF

n a factory in mainland Europe making several brands of bee feed AND bakers fondant all on the one line out of the same tanks.

This is perfectly acceptable one must assume they elect to use the same source materials because they know if it’s good enough for bees it’s good enough for humans.
Quite how they justify charging more for it though is beyond me …. Maybee it’s the extra labelling and packaging or perhaps due to the lower volume they need to charge more to cover the investment in a different roller …. As I say I have no idea

 

[Boston Bees]

This was one discussion, but doesn't include fondant.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/effect-of-feeding-sugar-etc-on-bee-lifespan.48860/

Well, we're talking about fondant

 

[Anduril]

Well, we're talking about fondant

I know!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well, we're talking about fondant

I thought we were talking about selling it?

 

[elainemary]

But did it harm your bees?

Threw a lot of it away

 

[Anduril]

Threw a lot of it away

It could have been turned into syrup

 

[Markthebuilder]

This was one discussion, but doesn't include fondant.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/effect-of-feeding-sugar-etc-on-bee-lifespan.48860/

Here is another I think it showes a link to reduced bee lifespan if fed syrup inverted with added acid / extended heat producing high HMF but it also says this also produced other compounds they didn’t know the effect or Possible side effects of sugar supplementary nutrition on honey bee health
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-020-00745-6#article-info

 

[Boston Bees]

Here is another I think it showes a link to reduced bee lifespan if fed syrup inverted with added acid / extended heat producing high HMF but it also says this also produced other compounds they didn’t know the effect or Possible side effects of sugar supplementary nutrition on honey bee health
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-020-00745-6#article-info

Still not about fondant

And the key conclusion seems to be the only realistic way you can make homemade syrup dangerous for bees is if you add lemon (or some other acidic agent) to it. So .... let's not add lemon to our syrup anymore, OK everyone?

 

[Boston Bees]

I know!

And, just FYI, the conclusion of that study was that it's perfectly healthy to feed bees syrup, as long as you don't add an acidic substance to it, or yeast, or malt. Who on earth would do that anyway? Bizarre.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Still not about fondant

And the key conclusion seems to be the only realistic way you can make homemade syrup dangerous for bees is if you add lemon (or some other acidic agent) to it. So .... let's not add lemon to our syrup anymore, OK everyone?

In another post I stated that I acted on instinct befor asking questions. I have to admit adding lemon juice or essence of lemon to my syrup last year because I thought the bees would like the smell. A couple of my pans of syrup may also have been left to boil whilst I was distracted…… maybe that explained all my beekeeping woes…

and ….. I thought they made fondant from syrup????

 

[Anduril]

Bizarre.

Indeed!

 

[user 20297]

Respectfully , you miss the point it is not the honey we are concerned about when feeding bakers fondant it is the bees mortality. It would seem that high HMF feed across the winter could affect the larva, this may explain some of the colony over winter losses.

Respectfully, I think you miss the point; of all the possible causes of winter mortality in bee colonies, the amount of HMF in fondant has got to be one of the most minor. Legislation regarding the makeup of feeds and medications for animals which are farmed for human consumption is primarily intended to protect human health. If it is acceptable to subject bees to chemicals which would be hazardous to our own health if applied in the same way, I see no reason to create a scare over a chemical which apparently will not harm us at all. The fact that there is no statutory legislation which governs the production of fondant for bees supports this view of things.

 

[Boston Bees]

In another post I stated that I acted on instinct befor asking questions. I have to admit adding lemon juice or essence of lemon to my syrup last year because I thought the bees would like the smell.

Oh.

I'm lost for words, to be honest.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Threw a lot of it away

Well I suppose that’s one way of making sure it didn’t kill your bees

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I've been waiting all day to ask this without ruining the flow, but it's getting late. Elsewhere (thread closed now) I read: That is not baker's fondant, but fondant icing - a totally different product. (JBM).

Yesterday I took delivery of a pallet of 12.5kg blocks of fondant from my usual supplier - except that it turned out not to be blocks - but tubs of fondant icing. See picture. The price is much the same (£10.25).

I plan to use this rather than go through the hassle of arranging a return, but I'll have to dollop the stuff into plastic containers. Does anyone have experience of using fondant icing, or have any comments?

 

[user 20297]

Does anyone have experience of using fondant icing, or have any comments?

The additional ingredient you have in comparison with my lovely, pure, baker's fondant is E471, which is an emulsifier. I don't know if that will upset the bees, but it will definitely upset some people here.
https://bakerite.co.uk/product-range/emulsifier-e471/

 

[Erichalfbee]

It hasn’t got HMF in the ingredients though