Selling honey through a local shop.

[Hivemaker.]

Right. So....I understand commercial honey having to be declared kosher..... but hobby honey on sale at a farmers’ market?

Would of thought the same regulations apply, it is still food being sold to the public, even if only hobby food... and some hobby producers have a lot of honey to sell.

 

[Jimmy]

There is an ongoing research project that includes DNA analysis of honey.

https://www.ceh.ac.uk/our-science/projects/national-honey-monitoring-scheme

 

[B+.]

Right. So....I understand commercial honey having to be declared kosher..... but hobby honey on sale at a farmers’ market?

Let's say you buy a bunch of flowers off a market stall. Is it ok if a few of them wilt before you get home? Maybe a bit mildew or rust? How about a few pests?
IMHO, the standards should be the same. I wouldn't expect the product on the market stall to be any different from the product I buy in a shop. Obviously, a stallholder has none of the overheads of the shopkeeper so I expect the price to be lower.
The law (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/1348/made) is still the same. I don't think we should be going down the road of "one law for him and a different law for someone else".

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

Apparently a keeper in wales was caught selling honey from Zimbabwe as his own, now this has put welsh honey at the top of the list for testing, government is paying. I was chosen as it was reported that in this persons opinion I was selling more honey than the hive numbers could justify, I know who it was as his wife made the same complaint about our other products three weeks previous. It has done me a favour though as I can now tell the customer exactly what pollen is in the jar.

 

[Poly Hive]

LOL well done you.

In essence, selling honey is simple and this is how I worked it.

Offer honey too as near to show bench standard as you can. My then wife was a keen shower and won best in show at the Aberdeen and district show twice I think it was. At the time the biggest show in Scotland (500 members)

Offer the honey as sale or return. Takes the pressure off the shop as to whether it will sell or not. Say you will be back in a fortnight to see how its going and be willing to take it all back if its a flop. Never happened but this is all reassurance to the shop. Gently suggest that as you are asking x per jar they sell at y as down the road the price is z... in other words know your market.

See... simple.

PH

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

A lot of the issue could be coming from the manuka bubble maybe about to burst, we are currently working with a food tech lab and they keep mentioning about honey being the third most adulterated food, I know it would not generally be what this forum members are producing but to a government minister we are all producing the same product whether big or small scale.

 

[thedozzer]

A lot of the issue could be coming from the manuka bubble maybe about to burst, we are currently working with a food tech lab and they keep mentioning about honey being the third most adulterated food, I know it would not generally be what this forum members are producing but to a government minister we are all producing the same product whether big or small scale.

Its sort of understandable that they want to check, remember the horse/donkey/undefined meat scandal? Sadly the smaller more personal producer will get tarred with the same brush as the larger. less that customer oriented national/global businesses that doesn't care what they produce as long as there is a profit.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

A hair can not be tolerated the same as Chinese crap imported under the pretence of being honey can not be. I would imagine all food hygiene rules will be strictly enforced at least for the next foreseeable.
One major point that I have noticed recently is the lack of agreement between TS officers on how rules are enforced, there is a lot of interpretation used, I know this as we have been trading under national rules for a number of years where a new recent start up has had to go the expense of allergen and sugar contents labelling from the go.
To be honest this year it has been very tempting to just let most go in bulk, just not worth the agro with the wholesale price jumping as it has, and taking into consideration the extra number of hives that could be run with the time that is save from jarring/delivering, I could easily have another fifty on the go.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Let's say you buy a bunch of flowers off a market stall. Is it ok if a few of them wilt before you get home? Maybe a bit mildew or rust? How about a few pests?
IMHO, the standards should be the same. I wouldn't expect the product on the market stall to be any different from the product I buy in a shop. Obviously, a stallholder has none of the overheads of the shopkeeper so I expect the price to be lower.
The law (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/1348/made) is still the same. I don't think we should be going down the road of "one law for him and a different law for someone else".

The problem is the honey regulations 2015 do not say anything about hygiene

 

[B+.]

The problem is the honey regulations 2015 do not say anything about hygiene

There are others.
Since honey is food, there are also food regulations (https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/general-food-law)

 

[SDM]

Apparently a keeper in wales was caught selling honey from Zimbabwe as his own, now this has put welsh honey at the top of the list for testing, government is paying. I was chosen as it was reported that in this persons opinion I was selling more honey than the hive numbers could justify, I know who it was as his wife made the same complaint about our other products three weeks previous. It has done me a favour though as I can now tell the customer exactly what pollen is in the jar.

Still, its a shame to have some bitter grave dodging busybody wasting tax payers money.
Sounds like him and his wife could really use a life of their own instead of paying so much attention to yours.
Hopefully his "opinions " will be treated with the contempt they deserve in future.

 

[Beefriendly]

Right. So....I understand commercial honey having to be declared kosher..... but hobby honey on sale at a farmers’ market?

That would be me then...
Nope you need food hygiene rating, level 2 hygiene certificate and third party insurance. You simply cannot get onto a decent market or farmers market without these. Most insist on a minimum 4 star rating.
Or shall I put it this way...if you can get on a market without them checking you have these certificates that market should be closed down.

My other big gripe is the second sellers. Farmers markets should (and usually are) for the primary producers only.
I know of several concerns who buy their preserves and honey in and then pretend (lie) it's all made by them. Fortunately on the circuits we are on most of these are well known and cannot get onto any of the farmers markets.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That would be me then...
Nope you need food hygiene rating, level 2 hygiene certificate and third party insurance. You simply cannot get onto a decent market or farmers market without these. Most insist on a minimum 4 star rating.
Or shall I put it this way...if you can get on a market without them checking you have these certificates that market should be closed down.

My other big gripe is the second sellers. Farmers markets should (and usually are) for the primary producers only.
I know of several concerns who buy their preserves and honey in and then pretend (lie) it's all made by them. Fortunately on the circuits we are on most of these are well known and cannot get onto any of the farmers markets.

I used to sell at local market.
I have the level 2 cert and third party insurance. That’s no problem. My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated honey prep area. I throw the dog out and clean the kitchen from top to bottom. It’s all I can do.

 

[For want of a better word]

I used to sell at local market.
I have the level 2 cert and third party insurance. That’s no problem. My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated honey prep area. I throw the dog out and clean the kitchen from top to bottom. It’s all I can do.

Which bit does the dog come under... meat or soil?

yeghes da

 

[birdsandbees]

My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated honey prep area. I throw the dog out and clean the kitchen from top to bottom. It’s all I can do.

I think that's the issue with most Hobby Beekeepers, I have to do the same, everything is cleaned and sterilised for each extraction and jarring but its a temporary set up, I have neither the time nor Money to have a dedicated prep room, it is after all just a hobby.

I agree with only selling the best, I don't even like selling honey with higher pollen content even though there's nothing wrong with it some just don't like cloudy Honey.

what boils my urine is the hobby beekeepers selling their Honey as Organic, there's a few on BookFace market place, one near me, there's no way he can claim Organic status but he seems to be getting away with it.

I have been in contact with a group setting up a village shop, due to open in December they plan on prioritising local produce, I know that they have been contacted by another Bee farmer who lives in the area but his hives are dotted all over so not really 'local' my foot in the door is that all of my hives are within 4 miles of the shop and one apiary is 500yds away, it doesn't get more local that that!

I might even get some bespoke labels made stating this.

MarkJAdams - its St Peters Garden Centre

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have been in contact with a group setting up a village shop, due to open in December they plan on prioritising local produce, I know that they have been contacted by another Bee farmer who lives in the area but his hives are dotted all over so not really 'local' my foot in the door is that all of my hives are within 4 miles of the shop and one apiary is 500yds away, it doesn't get more local that that!

I might even get some bespoke labels made stating this.

I have 3 apiaries and extract each individually, I then design labels that tell the buyer about the honey and it's benefits and it's origin.
The honeys sells very well to the locals at each apiary..... people just love local!!

 

[Beefriendly]

I used to sell at local market.
I have the level 2 cert and third party insurance. That’s no problem. My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated honey prep area. I throw the dog out and clean the kitchen from top to bottom. It’s all I can do.

You don't need one.
We are 5 star hygiene and work out of our kitchen...and throw our cat out. IIRC you need all surfaces to washable and able to be sterilised. You need 2 hand washing areas and tiled or vinyl floor. Plus need to write up a HACCP if you want hygiene rating...
I think our requirements are more strict than for honey, as we make jams and preserves as well. So have to sort out produce flow and storage as separate to preparation area.
It's all quite straightforward.

 

[Stiffy]

You don't need one.
We are 5 star hygiene and work out of our kitchen...and throw our cat out. IIRC you need all surfaces to washable and able to be sterilised. You need 2 hand washing areas and tiled or vinyl floor. Plus need to write up a HACCP if you want hygiene rating...
I think our requirements are more strict than for honey, as we make jams and preserves as well. So have to sort out produce flow and storage as separate to preparation area.
It's all quite straightforward.

As long as you can show in your documents that you have removed the chance of contamination the inspectors are happy. We have a folder with a list of procedures and methods used which was given to the inspector, he was very pleased and said it made his life a lot easier to have a document and that we had considered all risks.
S

 

[Beefriendly]

As Tanker John mentioned previously, you go through all the hoops to legally sell your honey and some jerk with no idea of hygiene appears on a unregulated market selling honey from gods knows where at £2 a jar less than you....

Plus many honey sellers do no realise the value of pure honey constantly under price it.
There is village near the Bee unit at Sand Hutton where a beekeeper is advertising 1lb jars of honey for £3.
Bulk honey is currently around £3.20lb not even jarred. I've been tempted to buy his entire stock.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Bulk honey is currently around £3.20lb not even jarred. I've been tempted to buy his entire stock.

He could sell it to Rowse in barrels for that.