Raw honey

[Murox]

My process is like that of @Erichalfbee

 

[hemo]

What is the practice in the UK in preparing honey for sale? Is it unadulterated? Filtered? ???

Same as post #140 minimalist processing. It is normal to tub up honey for storage and then to reheat at high 30's to very low 40's temps to make runny again. One coarse filtering only .

 

[The Poot]

Thought you might like my new honey logo
Roar honey.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thought you might like my new honey logo
Roar honey.
View attachment 39147

Excellent Poot!
You reminded me. We already have Walrus honey after all.

 

[Antipodes]

"Unfiltered" is another problem term. Like, I suspect most on here, I strain my honey to remove wax cappings etc - that is filtering, just with a coarse filter.

I'm not sure about what unfiltered means but if you let it settle in a tank for a while (called a mellower) the wax floats to the top and the nails, wire and sand goes to the bottom. No need to put through a coarse filter.

 

[hemo]

Not sure how you get nails, wire and sand in to your extracted honey .

 

[PollenPirate]

Seems to me that those larger producers, whom employ more intensive straining, heating, filtering are somewhat worried that their process will not be deemed as raw. Whilst those garden producers who literally spin the honey and nothing more can easily claim the label of raw.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Whilst those garden producers who literally spin the honey and nothing more can easily claim the label of raw.

Hmmm. We're on page 8 of this thread now. A lot has been aired. It's not at all straightforward, though I suppose there's nothing to stop you making claims.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Seems to me that those larger producers, whom employ more intensive straining, heating, filtering are somewhat worried that their process will not be deemed as raw. Whilst those garden producers who literally spin the honey and nothing more can easily claim the label of raw.

Cannot see how you arrived at that conclusion, given the lengthy debate of raw on this forum during the last few years. The reality is that all sorts have used and will continue to use the word raw irrespective of authenticity of product or production routine.

Outcome is that though some may claim product quality high ground, whether a few combs crushed and strained by Granny Miggins in a country kitchen or a hundred tonnes imported from China, the word lacks regulation and so specific validity, and can mean anything or everything.

easily claim the label of raw

Go ahead and join the crowd, if you must, and plenty of producers & consumers are eager to play a game of make-believe with their own interpretation of the word. Occasionally TS serve a notice to desist, in line with ACTSO guidance, but the chance of that is remote (see below).

https://www.therawhoneyshop.com/pag...he-rawest-purest-straight-from-the-hive-honey

 

[Antipodes]

Not sure how you get nails, wire and sand in to your extracted honey .

It was a little tongue in cheek that bit but, if you lose a frame or wiring nail in the extractor or blow a frame (or there is a broken wire during extraction) I guess it could happen. That's why it's good that the tap of the mellower does not come directly out of the base of it, but is up a little way
The bottom of a super and/or a frame touching against some soil or dirt somewhere might account for some visible minerals in the mellower tank but they, like anything metallic, should sink to the bottom of the tank, below the tap.

I use one like this but without a conical base.

https://shop.safnatura.com/eng/settling-tanks|mellower/mellower-100-kg/145/

 

[Erichalfbee]

https://www.therawhoneyshop.com/pag...he-rawest-purest-straight-from-the-hive-honey

Thanks Eric. That’s five minutes of my life I won’t get back

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I've noticed recently two posts on Facebook. One being from a local hobbyist who has taken great exception to a new stockist we have in their town & posted a picture of their raw honey extraction, complete with dog bed next next to the spinner!!.
Another is one of the local associations that have changed their labels to include, harvested from the local organic farm, quite plainly an attempt to mislead about the organic nature of the product.

 

[pargyle]

Hmmm. We're on page 8 of this thread now. A lot has been aired. It's not at all straightforward, though I suppose there's nothing to stop you making claims.

And I suspect it will carry on for another 8 pages unless the weather bucks up and we all have better things to do with our time rather than try and justify two totally opposite viewpoints. There will be no resolution until such time as the matter is resolved finally and clearly in a court of law - the recent case has only served to muddy the waters.

I am a little disappointed that some of the people who are so averse to the word raw have resorted to the use of disparaging descriptions of those who feel that the word raw is justified. But ... when the debate cannot be won it seems, these days, (everywhere - not just on here) that ridicule and sarcasm is a fair tactic ... it's not the way I was taught to debate.

 

[Erichalfbee]

But ... when the debate cannot be won it seems, these days, (everywhere - not just on here) that ridicule and sarcasm is a fair tactic ... it's not the way I was taught to debate.

‘‘Tis the way if the world since social media was invented. A Quick Look in Twitter reassures me that this forum is fairly blameless in that respect.

 

[ericbeaumont]

it will carry on for another 8 pages

More like another 8 years, until

such time as the matter is resolved finally and clearly in a court of law

 

[thorn]

More like another 8 years, until

A council is going to have to feel strongly enough to put money into bringing a prosecution, a beekeeper into defending it and whoever loses taking it to a higher and yet higher court.
Is there a Yorkshireman in the house?

 

[ericbeaumont]

A council is going to have to feel strongly enough to put money into bringing a prosecution, a beekeeper into defending it and whoever loses taking it to a higher and yet higher court.

Such conflict and waste of time and money is unnecessary: resolution would require ACTSO to accept that the word is variable, that its use cannot be stopped and that a regulatory definition would benefit TS and sellers of proper honey.

Difficulty is that ACTSO is a voluntary body and there are no means of direct contact with it.

 

[Moobee]

Cannot see how you arrived at that conclusion, given the lengthy debate of raw on this forum during the last few years. The reality is that all sorts have used and will continue to use the word raw irrespective of authenticity of product or production routine.

Outcome is that though some may claim product quality high ground, whether a few combs crushed and strained by Granny Miggins in a country kitchen or a hundred tonnes imported from China, the word lacks regulation and so specific validity, and can mean anything or everything.


Go ahead and join the crowd, if you must, and plenty of producers & consumers are eager to play a game of make-believe with their own interpretation of the word. Occasionally TS serve a notice to desist, in line with ACTSO guidance, but the chance of that is remote (see below).

https://www.therawhoneyshop.com/pag...he-rawest-purest-straight-from-the-hive-honey

The risk is you add 'raw' to your labels and waste money if asked to remove the term and have to reprint everything.... You're right, it's very much a grey area.

 

[pargyle]

A council is going to have to feel strongly enough to put money into bringing a prosecution, a beekeeper into defending it and whoever loses taking it to a higher and yet higher court.
Is there a Yorkshireman in the house?

That'll be me then !

However, over a lifetime in business (most of the time MY business) I have discovered that going to court, unless you have a totally cast iron case, is a bit of a lottery. The only people who have a guaranteed win are the lawyers (and I don't begrudge them a penny of their fees). It is an expensive business and an amicable settlement (usually unacceptable to either party) at the earliest opportunity is the best resolution. Sheer bloody-mindedness is never a good reason to invoke a legal process.

Having said that I have been at the receiving end of a totally bloody minded individual, who had no case, who spent virtually nothing persuing something that was complete nonsense, cost me £12k in legal fees and producing evidence, ultimately bringing the case to a Land Registry tribunal, only because there was no other way to permit the sale of a property by winning. Only to have him settle on the day before the hearing on a solution that I had offered 9 months earlier on the day he raised the neighbour boundary dispute. The only consolation ... in the meantime the house went up in value more than it cost me in the delay and legal costs and the people I sold the house to turned out to be his neighbours from hell ... I could not have wished for more.

 

[Moobee]

It was a little tongue in cheek that bit but, if you lose a frame or wiring nail in the extractor or blow a frame (or there is a broken wire during extraction) I guess it could happen. That's why it's good that the tap of the mellower does not come directly out of the base of it, but is up a little way
The bottom of a super and/or a frame touching against some soil or dirt somewhere might account for some visible minerals in the mellower tank but they, like anything metallic, should sink to the bottom of the tank, below the tap.

I use one like this but without a conical base.

https://shop.safnatura.com/eng/settling-tanks|mellower/mellower-100-kg/145/

Same but mine goes through a coarse filter first mostly to remove bits of wax and bee parts (never a good look in a jar!). I know these as settling tanks - allows all the bubbles to come to the top for 24-48 hours before jarring up.