Oxalic acid treatment

[pargyle]

No, no idea

Well ... that's reassuring because nobody else does either !

 

[ericbeaumont]

decent square plastic cut comb containers

The US boxes (and Ceracell in NZ) are a brilliant design and cheap but seemingly difficult to import. I rang Bee Equipment about four years ago and suggested that as they had US suppliers that they might bring some over.

They did, but of course went the cheaper route and bought Chinese, with Chinese writing on the lid, at a time when we're trying to get the message across that Chinese honey is not really what we want to see. Surely the boxes aren't £4.54 each?

Turkish Ozmert Plastik boxes are used in UK and Europe and also good, but the factory would only sell me a container load; heard last season of a UK source of bulk supply; I'll try and find out more.

 

[Sanntos]

I don't believe this is the result of a normal treatment. Even if some eggs gets damaged they won't fall out of the cell. They will probably be eaten by the worker bees

 

[ericbeaumont]

Api-Bioxal bought in the USA

Last I followed this story, use of plain ol' OA was legal in the US to treat varroa.

Has this changed, Simon? If not, I can't see why anyone over there would buy expensive ApiBioxal rather than cheap OA, and why Chemicals Laif (AB producer) would bother to enter that market.

 

[Mint Bee]

Last I followed this story, use of plain ol' OA was legal in the US to treat varroa.

Has this changed, Simon? If not, I can't see why anyone over there would buy expensive ApiBioxal rather than cheap OA, and why Chemicals Laif (AB producer) would bother to enter that market.

From March this year
With this it is important for beekeepers to understand that the registration and legal use of oxalic acid in the U.S. for in-hive use is currently only through the registered product API-Bioxal™ (of which oxalic acid is the active ingredient)
API-Bioxal™ (EPA Registration Number 91266-1-73291) is currently the only legally registered oxalic acid dihydrate product in the United States that can be used to treat varroa mites.

Oxalic Acid FAQ's : USDA ARS

Interestingly, there is a comments on update to the labelling to allow for application with supers on all year round. No reason why the manufacturers shouldn't update the license in UK / EU

 

[ericbeaumont]

No reason why the manufacturers shouldn't update the license in UK

How does that work? Chemicals Laif apply to the VMD (assume money must change hands) or acknowledgemnt by VMD of the US research, and that our regs. can be relaxed?

 

[simonwig]

From March this year
With this it is important for beekeepers to understand that the registration and legal use of oxalic acid in the U.S. for in-hive use is currently only through the registered product API-Bioxal™ (of which oxalic acid is the active ingredient)
API-Bioxal™ (EPA Registration Number 91266-1-73291) is currently the only legally registered oxalic acid dihydrate product in the United States that can be used to treat varroa mites.

Oxalic Acid FAQ's : USDA ARS

Interestingly, there is a comments on update to the labelling to allow for application with supers on all year round. No reason why the manufacturers shouldn't update the license in UK / EU

Thanks Mint Bee, my answer to Eric was going to be I don't know, but now I do.

I've emailed the manufacturer to ask about application with supers on, will post any reply.
Simon

 

[Mint Bee]

How does that work? Chemicals Laif apply to the VMD (assume money must change hands) or acknowledgemnt by VMD of the US research, and that our regs. can be relaxed?

Needs a variation to the licence submitted to VMD by license holder as this is a change to the currently approved application conditions. Costs about £1.5k. Need the data to show that there is no impact to effectivity of the product, impact to target species or foodstuff for human consumption. updates to labels, packaging and Product Information Leaflet that very few people read anyway Can't see why the data produced for US approval couldn't be used in the UK submission. Only thing I would think needs to be check is to see if there where any UK specific regulations on OA use in foodstuff. European Commission / European Foods Safety Authority has previously published on maximum residual limits for OA (not required) so that should not be an issue

L_2010015EN.01000101.xml

Approval timelines depend on a number of things, possibly 60 days, but more likely 120 days from validation of the variation submission to the VMD

Tim

 

[Finman]

From March this year
With this it is important for beekeepers to understand that the registration and legal use of oxalic acid in the U.S. for in-hive use is currently only through the registered product API-Bioxal™ (of which oxalic acid is the active ingredient)
API-Bioxal™ (EPA Registration Number 91266-1-73291) is currently the only legally registered oxalic acid dihydrate product in the United States
Oxalic Acid FAQ's : USDA ARS

I just looked it, that the chemical is aproved in USA treament " 100% oxalic acid dihydrate", without product name.

 

[Mint Bee]

From that document you took the screen shot

Primary registered products in the list have 2-part EPA registration numbers and are listed in bold. Distributor products have a 3-part EPA registration number, with the first two numbers reflecting the primary registered product’s registration number. Distributors may market their products under different names, but the formulations and uses are identical to the primary registered.

digging around further I've found The label for EPA Registration No. 91266-1 lists OAD as 97 percent of the product composition, with 3 percent inert ingredients. Information regarding the identity of the inert ingredients is not publicly available. Which ties into the formulation for the distributed product, API-Bioxal (EPA Registration Number 91266-1-73291)

Somewhere there is a mistake, otherwise API-Bioxal would have to formulated as 100% OAD to meet the requirements as a Distributed product My money would be on the document you looked at and that this should read 97% OAD, as in a letter from the EPA to USDA in 2015 the 91266-1 formulation is listed as 97% OAD

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/091266-00001-20151013.pdf
https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-prot...s-approved-use-against-varroa-mites-bee-hives

 

[pargyle]

From that document you took the screen shot

Primary registered products in the list have 2-part EPA registration numbers and are listed in bold. Distributor products have a 3-part EPA registration number, with the first two numbers reflecting the primary registered product’s registration number. Distributors may market their products under different names, but the formulations and uses are identical to the primary registered.

digging around further I've found The label for EPA Registration No. 91266-1 lists OAD as 97 percent of the product composition, with 3 percent inert ingredients. Information regarding the identity of the inert ingredients is not publicly available. Which ties into the formulation for the distributed product, API-Bioxal (EPA Registration Number 91266-1-73291)

Somewhere there is a mistake, otherwise API-Bioxal would have to formulated as 100% OAD to meet the requirements as a Distributed product My money would be on the document you looked at and that this should read 97% OAD, as in a letter from the EPA to USDA in 2015 the 91266-1 formulation is listed as 97% OAD

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/091266-00001-20151013.pdf
https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-prot...s-approved-use-against-varroa-mites-bee-hives

Fat lot of notice American beeks are going to take if apibioxal is the only legal product ...

 

[Finman]

From that document you took the

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/091266-00001-20151013.pdf
https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-prot...s-approved-use-against-varroa-mites-bee-hives

Year 2015 October

 

[Finman]

Look at report updated December 2020

 

[Finman]

Somewhere there is a mistake, otherwise API-Bioxal would have to formulated as 100% OAD to meet the requirements as a Distributed product My money would be on the document you looked at and that this should read 97% OAD, as in a letter from the EPA to USDA in 2015 the 91266-1 formulation is listed as 97% OAD

How much you know chemistry?

ApiBioxal is pure oxalic acid from Italy. How to use it, the recipe is the same as 20 years ago a recipe made by European Union Varroa Group.

Canada and USA accepted very late those Varroa Groups results.

When you give to bees oxalic acid in USA, it is fumicication, sugar syrup 2.8% OA or clycerin OA in cartong.

97% or 100 % Dihydrated, it is the same.
The difference may be crystal water, but it has no meaning when you give 3.5% or 2.8% acid.

It makes no sense that hou buy oxalic acid/ ApiBioxal from Italy.

i do not understand what is the problem

.

 

[Mint Bee]

Hi Finny

I have a PhD in Biochemical Engineering. 20yr lab and plant experience, and 15 in regulatory science. is that good enough to know my arse from my elbow?
What you have missed is the fact that the pure OAD is not officially approved in the US or UK. That is the problem if you choice to follow the law. The approved formulation of API-Bioxal has 3% inert material (fairy dust as Jenks would call it) and 97% OAD. That the whole basis of the 91266-1 specification from the EPA for USDA approval. pure OA or OAD is not approved by EPA or USDA


This is the primary registration and confers a intellectual property so that no one else can license this formulation of OAD for a number of years. otherwise there is nothing to stop any company producing a generic medicine on the back of the original approval of pure OA.
My point is regarding the regulatory approval of material for legal use, as OP raised, not the basic science. OAD has worked as an unapproved varroracide for many years As Phil mentioned most ignore what is approved and use whatever they want to buy.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The one sticking point for people using UK sourced apibioxal is that it is not 97% OAD, more like 88.6% OAD, 8% glucose and 3% inert material, if it was just 97% OAD plus silica, most would be happy

 

[pargyle]

The one sticking point for people using UK sourced apibioxal is that it is not 97% OAD, more like 88.6% OAD, 8% glucose and 3% inert material, if it was just 97% OAD plus silica, most would be happy

And at half the price they might buy it.....

 

[Finman]

Hi Finny

I have a PhD in Biochemical Engineering. 20yr lab and plant experience, and 15 in regulatory science. is that good enough to know my arse from my elbow?
What you have missed is the fact that the pure OAD is not officially approved in the US or UK. That is the problem if you choice to follow the laws.

I am biologist and retired 11 years ago.

Very strange problem. Problem is not mine.
I understand, that in your professional case it is a serious thing if you do not obey the chemical laws.

But I wonder why you ask help from this forum, when you know the thing so well. You buy ApiOxal and everything is fine. ⁷8

17 years ago here on forum it was an Irish vet , who insisted that oxalic acid for bees is against British law in. Since then that insisting has continued.

I got my 8 kg oxalic acid from a Russian luxury boat few years ago.

 

[Buzzlodge]

This is in the winter Welsh Beekeeper.
Anybody else seen this? I never have and I’ve been vaping bees with brood since 2009.
View attachment 29650

I have seen eggs like this on a bottom board before, in winter but not linked to vaping. The queen turned out to be a drone layer and the colony died out the following spring. I surmise that either the workers knew the eggs were wrong and were dumping them or perhaps that the queen was so addled that she was trying to lay through the OMF, mistaking the mesh holes for cell openings.

 

[Hivetool2021]

Hi all, just to close this off and as an update, I now have purchased 2 packs of apibioxal to use, and will use the Oxyalic for cleaning only, I have learnt a lot from you all and really good discussions thanks again happy new year