What's wrong with my hive?

[Lazy K]

The weather finally cooperated so I could do an inspection on my 4 hives. Two look great, one so-so and one that is worrysome. This hive was the biggest going into winter. I treated with OA in November. I know that I had a mouse get in the hive at some point and the bees mooved from the brood box to the super.
The colony is now pretty small with a small amount of brood and lots of Honey stored. Lots of activity.
The abandoned brood box looks horrible with mis-shaped comb. These photos show my real worry.
I live in the Middle of Nowhere with no bee mentor. Any thoughts and advice is appreciated. I've had bees for 1 year.

 

[Ian123]

When you say you treated in November with oxalic what did you do, how did you use the oxalic?
November would really be to late for a series of oxalic vapes and to early for a single winter vape/trickle.

 

[Lazy K]

Vape. I'm in the USA and my first freeze is early Oct.

 

[Ian123]

Vape. I'm in the USA and my first freeze is early Oct.

Hi…so a single vape or series of them and no other treatments during shall we say active season.?

 

[Lazy K]

The bees were treated by the beekeeper I bought them from last May. No other treatment.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the biggest going into winter

Varroosis: serious varroa infestation due to lack of late summer treatment last year.

You're lucky they're still alive. Put them into a smaller box - nuc box, perhaps - and treat for varroa thoroughly. If you don't, they'll be dead by year end.

Download the pdf Managing Varroa and you will find similar photos.

https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/res...eaflets-guides-and-videos/advisory-leaflets2/
PS: don't worry about the lack of a mentor. They can lead you astray, and you'll learn faster by making your own mistakes & asking questions.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Forgot to mention: the biggest colonies have the biggest infestation and will decline fastest.

 

[Ian123]

Ok to give you an idea of what many here in the Uk do and our timings, you have to adjust to yours flows and weather. I really would try and find out what timings good successful beeks in your area are doing.
In my part of the UK we’d normally start inspecting at some point in March weather and season depending. Generally you wouldn’t treat during the main part of the season unless there’s an issue spotted or perhaps a swarm or brood break and that’s an opportunity for a single vape.
Varroa numbers build through the active season, as my main flow finishes end of July queens reduce laying and bee numbers start to drop. Varroa numbers stay disproportionately high and there’s an increased pressure on the bees and limited brood.
So many treat early Autumn some will have late flows like heather and balsam so may treat before or after. The idea is to protect these last few rounds of brood rearing and the bees that carry the hive through the winter.
Obviously there’s conventional strip chemical treatments, Thymol types that depend on certain temperatures minimum average of 15C I think. Then your vaping.. a single vape with brood present is not effective you need a a series over a period to cover a brood cycle and kill mites in the cells.
A single oxalic treatment is great during the winter and a broodless period to kill any mites missed in the Autumn and to provide a clean start for the new season, preventing the need for action during the main part of the year. It does not help protect the young bees required to carry a hive over winter, it’s to late by then!
So a few things for you to judge and think about but I hope that’s a start.

 

[Lazy K]

Ok to give you an idea of what many here in the Uk do and our timings, you have to adjust to yours flows and weather. I really would try and find out what timings good successful beeks in your area are doing.
In my part of the UK we’d normally start inspecting at some point in March weather and season depending. Generally you wouldn’t treat during the main part of the season unless there’s an issue spotted or perhaps a swarm or brood break and that’s an opportunity for a single vape.
Varroa numbers build through the active season, as my main flow finishes end of July queens reduce laying and bee numbers start to drop. Varroa numbers stay disproportionately high and there’s an increased pressure on the bees and limited brood.
So many treat early Autumn some will have late flows like heather and balsam so may treat before or after. The idea is to protect these last few rounds of brood rearing and the bees that carry the hive through the winter.
Obviously there’s conventional strip chemical treatments, Thymol types that depend on certain temperatures minimum average of 15C I think. Then your vaping.. a single vape with brood present is not effective you need a a series over a period to cover a brood cycle and kill mites in the cells.
A single oxalic treatment is great during the winter and a broodless period to kill any mites missed in the Autumn and to provide a clean start for the new season, preventing the need for action during the main part of the year. It does not help protect the young bees required to carry a hive over winter, it’s to late by then!
So a few things for you to judge and think about but I hope that’s a start.

I went back and looked at my notes and I DID put Apivar strips in the hive in August. I had forgotten that. My hives have a screened bottom and I periodically put in a board to see if I have varroa and I haven't much. Thanks for your advice. I need to be more diligent.

 

[Lazy K]

Varroosis: serious varroa infestation due to lack of late summer treatment last year.

You're lucky they're still alive. Put them into a smaller box - nuc box, perhaps - and treat for varroa thoroughly. If you don't, they'll be dead by year end.

Download the pdf Managing Varroa and you will find similar photos.

https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/res...eaflets-guides-and-videos/advisory-leaflets2/
PS: don't worry about the lack of a mentor. They can lead you astray, and you'll learn faster by making your own mistakes & asking questions.

Whew!! Those photos look exactly like mine. To be honest I was afraid I had Foul brood since I know that will cause holes in the capped brood. I went back and looked at my notes and I DID put Apivar strips in the hive in August. I had forgotten that. My hives have a screened bottom and I periodically put in a board to see if I have varroa and I haven't much.

 

[Ian123]

Re the brood…Foul Bood with perforated cappings like that would normally be a lot darker sunken cappings with probably a rather gooey residue from the larvae. The picks aren’t great but you can make out chewed pupae and larvae in the cells…….as best as I can tell from those photos anyway!

 

[Lazy K]

Re the brood…Foul Bood with perforated cappings like that would normally be a lot darker sunken cappings with probably a rather gooey residue from the larvae. The picks aren’t great but you can make out chewed pupae and larvae in the cells…….as best as I can tell from those photos anyway!

Thanks! I love this forum. I learn a lot!

 

[Michael Palmer]

If you would examine the dead brood...do you see the pupae ready to emerge when they died?
Carefully dig some out with a pocket knife or the like. What do they look like? I believe you will find adult pupae with shriveled wings, and/or adult pupae with flat, stunted abdomens. This really is a definitive diagnosis of Varroa/virus colony death. I see some good candidates in your photos that would certainly display what I'm talking about.

 

[Lazy K]

If you would examine the dead brood...do you see the pupae ready to emerge when they died?
Carefully dig some out with a pocket knife or the like. What do they look like? I believe you will find adult pupae with shriveled wings, and/or adult pupae with flat, stunted abdomens. This really is a definitive diagnosis of Varroa/virus colony death. I see some good candidates in your photos that would certainly display what I'm talking about.

Yes, I agree. It looks like there are some adults ready to emerge. When I put them in a smaller box as Eric Beaumont suggested I'll examine the pupae. Thanks for that suggestion.

 

[pargyle]

Whew!! Those photos look exactly like mine. To be honest I was afraid I had Foul brood since I know that will cause holes in the capped brood. I went back and looked at my notes and I DID put Apivar strips in the hive in August. I had forgotten that. My hives have a screened bottom and I periodically put in a board to see if I have varroa and I haven't much.

The inspection board is a pretty poor indicator of varroa load I'm afraid. The only time it is any real indicator is if you do a vape and that will create a forced drop ... it's suprising sometimes when there's virtually nothing on the inspection board and you check a few hours after vaping and there are lots of dead varroa !

I've been a non-treater for many years and I do sugar rolls which are a fairly accurate assessment of the varroa load. It costs next to nothing all you need is a jar with some mesh in place of the lid, some icing sugar and a cupful of bees. It does not harm the bees and it's a really good indicator of the varroa in the colony.

There's a really good video of how it's done with the Abelo 3 in 1 tester but you can do the same with a home made one:

Have a look at this thread:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/abelo-varroa-tester-3-in-1.49125/
Here's the method as described on the Dave Cushman website:

Sugar roll

This is a simple, non chemical, inexpensive and non destructive way to test bees for the degree of infestation of Varroa mites.
A Kilner jar with the glass centre removed from the lid and replaced with a disc of 8 mesh can be used. a funnel made by cutting away the bottom portion of a conventional plastic funnel so that the hole in the bottom is about half the width of the mouth of the jar. You may need to hold this in place with a little 'Blue-Tack' or plastocene.
A volume of bees from the brood nest are shaken over the funnel until there is an adequate amount in the jar (calibrate the jar with lines painted on the outside). Put on the lid with mesh.
A tablespoon of icing sugar (powdered sugar) that does not contain corn starch is poured through the mesh and the whole jar shaken to coat all bees with the powdered sugar. Be consistent with the time, two minutes of shaking has been recommended.
Then the jar is then inverted and shaken over paper or a plastic tray or even a bowl of water, which dissolves the sugar and makes it easy to count exactly how many mites have been removed. The bees can then be returned to the colony as they are still alive after the test.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I DID put Apivar strips in the hive in August

It's possible that in you area varroa have developed resistance to Amitraz, the chemical in Apivar strips.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0227264
https://scientificbeekeeping.com/am...development-of-resistance-by-mites-to-amitraz

 

[hemo]

Best to give them a treatment now so they an build up nicely.
If using the vaping OA technique give them 4 vapes at 5 day intervals to cover one complete brood cycle which includes drones. If no drone cells are laid up then one can simply go 3 vapes at 5 day intervals.

 

[Lazy K]

The inspection board is a pretty poor indicator of varroa load I'm afraid. The only time it is any real indicator is if you do a vape and that will create a forced drop ... it's suprising sometimes when there's virtually nothing on the inspection board and you check a few hours after vaping and there are lots of dead varroa !

I've been a non-treater for many years and I do sugar rolls which are a fairly accurate assessment of the varroa load. It costs next to nothing all you need is a jar with some mesh in place of the lid, some icing sugar and a cupful of bees. It does not harm the bees and it's a really good indicator of the varroa in the colony.

There's a really good video of how it's done with the Abelo 3 in 1 tester but you can do the same with a home made one:

Have a look at this thread:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/abelo-varroa-tester-3-in-1.49125/
Here's the method as described on the Dave Cushman website:

Sugar roll

How often do you personally test for varroa? Thanks for the information.

 

[Lazy K]

It's possible that in you area varroa have developed resistance to Amitraz, the chemical in Apivar strips.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0227264
https://scientificbeekeeping.com/am...development-of-resistance-by-mites-to-amitraz

Thanks for the articles. I read some info on Randy Oliver's site about dusting bees with powdered sugar (repeated frequently) as a varroa treatment. Any thoughts on that?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I read some info on Randy Oliver's site about dusting bees with powdered sugar (repeated frequently) as a varroa treatment. Any thoughts on that?

not really effective - unless you do it a few times,daily, but it will have a detrimental effect on the bees regardless of the frequency as the sugar dust will block the bees' spiracles